BizLvStkFAQs

FAQs about Livestock in Business 1

Sometimes good as gold, other times real trouble. The Flame Angelfish

Fish Breeding 9/10/03 Hey Crew, <howdy> Here is my question, I am looking at setting up a small home based business of fragging & growing out corals, and I would like to diversify- I am already doing the frag thing wt some of my local stores and am getting a friend of mine to design me a website when I get more tanks on line:) <very cool... if you haven't peeped it already, do consider looking at my Book of Coral Propagation - a book written on this very subject: www.readingtrees.com > When I was a kid I used to breed quite a few cichlids, mainly Africans, and did quite a brisk business for a 14 year old!! I am looking to breed freshwater fish in conjunction wt fragging corals for our local market & would like y'alls opinion on what fish to breed? The crux of the problem is rare fish or bread n butter. And what kinds would you recommend of each. <Hmmmmm... the question is very general and tough to answer without knowing how much space you have and how much money you'd like to earn. But, at any rate... beginners and their needs drive our market, and as such... bread-n-butter species are the most reliable profit. For corals, its colorful and hardy soft corals (avoid SPS and delicate softies)... seek hardy leathers and colored button polyps and corallimorphs. For freshwater... seek angelfish, fancy guppies, African cichlids> I did very well with cichlids, but that was 16 years ago! Tho from what I have read on your most excellent site, it does not appear that things have changed that much. If I were to breed cichlids, African or South American? Or maybe good ol Angel fish? Any help/info/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you in advance, Joshua Scialdone <please also read through our business links on the site by navigating from the home page. Much info on starting a fish biz. Best regards, Anthony>

Fish and coral farming 9/10/03 Anthony, Thanx for the response. It's funny that you suggested going with colorful softies, as this has been the bulk of what I have been collecting over the years! <much better money there> To be honest, I have only kept 2 SPS corals in the 12 or so years that I have been keeping reef tanks. As regards to space, I am setting up tanks in a spare bedroom right now, but my wife & I are going to be moving out of the city (Norfolk, A) across the NC border into the country where I am seriously thinking of going with a greenhouse to prop/breed in. <indeed... will make a tremendous difference in your potential. No prayer of a significant income from home-based business with corals at least while paying for artificial light> My only concern is that our summers are VERY hot & humid, and I wonder what will be the best way to keep temps within spec? <no worries... its an issue long since taken care of by hothouse growers. Evaporative cooling, large water pools for stability... and desiccating beads or geothermal cooling if necessary (see recent threads on reefcentral.com and others regarding these topics)> I am going o purchase your book as I always pick it up when I am at my LFS! Thanks for the link to your site. I know that you used a greenhouse setup wt good results. The system I am looking at doing for my inside prop is a stacked shallow tank design as seen in Daniel Knops clam book- basically a 4-5 unit design wt a sump at the bottom wt live rock & shallow(12-14inch) tanks for grow out. <yes... very efficient> I am going to start wt one system, but am thinking about plumbing two or more of these units into a large Rubbermaid sump that will be filled wt LR & a large skimmer in the near future. I have always used VHO lighting in the past, or NO over shallow tanks, but now I am debating on VHO vs. PC. <do look instead to jump to t-5s, a better technology> I would also like your opinion on DSB and/or plenums vs. Berlin style setups (I have always used Berlin style setups in the past) <easy... DSBs have tremendous benefits. Browse through our archives here on this subject (keyword search from home page) and take a peek at the new Reef Invertebrates book (the most current coverage on the topic)> My reason for wanting to breed fish is that I am assuming that it would be a good way to supplement income from the corals. Around here South American Cichlids seem to be more popular than Africans with the general public, plus being egg layers they seem to produce more offspring faster in a given time, but as I stated earlier I have much more experience with Africans. As far as how much money that I want to make, it will be a part time end ever at first, but I would like to go in business for myself one day. I have extensive experience wt sales, retail, wholesale, and direct. I also worked in 2 different LFS as a teenager. I have contacted potential investors for when I plan to put up a greenhouse. I was also a biology major wt an emphasis in fisheries science & education. So I do have some experience in the field. <do be sure to write and revisit a good business plan> I have toyed wt the idea of opening a LFS, but after much thought I have decided that I would rather have a business based at home such as breeding or fragging. <retail is a hard road and needs a lot of capital> In your opinion (or the rest of the crew for that matter!) is this a sensible idea? (fish & corals or corals only) Thank you for your time, and I am looking forward to your response. Thanking you in advance, Joshua Scialdone <frankly, with your limited space... I would suggest you focus on one group rather than spread yourself thin (inventory wise). Your clientele will favor reliability over an unrealistic inventory. Focus now... expand later. Best of luck! Anthony>

Marine collectors in Costa Rica I would like to know if you have collecting contacts in Costa Rica? (If so can i have your contact info for them? i would highly appreciate it! thanks in advance. <Don't know anyone who collects in Costa Rica currently. You might contact the OFI re their list of collectors. Try reading here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizlvstkfaqs.htm and the next/linked file on livestocking a business. Bob Fenner, who's headed back to CR in a few months.>

Clam business. Hey bob just a small update. Dave Palmer has gotten in touch with me and says he would supply me with clams as long as I order 50 at a time so that I could get wholesale prices. <Outstanding. Dave is a person of tremendous experience and integrity in the industry> Below is a copy of the email he sent me. It is a little confusing to me so I asked him to give me a rough estimate of how much money I would be looking at for 50 clams, just to give me an idea as what to expect. <Good idea. Always appropriate to ask questions. Clarity is pleasurable> Quote "You do not need any import license or such. The clams come into L.A. on Thursday afternoon and we forward them to you for arrival at your airport Friday morning. You probably should have the water changed by us before forwarding but that is up to you. <Yes, good idea on the water change if there is going to be more than another 8-10 hours or more delay before your receiving in PA> 50 clams would probably be the smallest number that I would want to sell and it may need to be a few more depending on how many it takes to fill the last box. <Very important... to buy minimum plus orders... the cost per unit is the lowest in this fashion... don't buy anything you have to "sit on" for more than a few weeks> We sell Crocea both first and super grades, Maxima, a few Squamosa, and a few Hippopus hippopus clams. Prices vary depending on size and color. You pay the FOB island price plus 3.85 per kilo for freight from Solomon's to L.A., 10.00 per box for box and packing charge, 7.50 per box for fish and wildlife clearance in L.A., and 5.00 per box for the cites document charges. The clams will be sent to you freight collect from L.A. so you will pay the L.A. to your airport charges at your airport. <Very reasonable> That is about it. Let me know when you are ready for clams and I can let you know what stock is like and what prices are. Best regards, Dave Palmer " As far as plans for the tank setup I have a few ideas. I was going to do a 8' long by 4' wide by 12" deep. <Make the overflows (likely to sumps/totes below) adjustable so you can raise/lower the water depth.> I feel no need for greater depth as this is for ease of use and profit, not display. My idea is that this tank would be about 240 gallons and allow me to grow as business increases. I would only have to light one section of the tank at a time. When I need more light simply add a section above the new stock. <Sounds good> It would also mean easier filtration, i.e. one sump, one calcium reactor, one large skimmer. I checked on acrylic prices and I can get a 4' by 8' sheet of 1/2 acrylic for about $250. <Half inch? No need to be this thick... Please contact Anthony.C... I'll cc him here re... I would make your first units out of glass probably... or thinner acrylic (1/4 inch likely, braced at the top)... but keep costs low... look into the polyethylene totes I mentioned re the supports for underneath/sumps... Ask about (the club, stores, service co.s) for "used gear"... there are likely a bunch of suitable containers, pumps, what have you laying about that will do fine for little money> Two sheets of acrylic can build the tank for about $500. I do not believe thicker than 1/2" acrylic would be needed with only 12" height. <... could be three feet tall... I would only make eight inches deep...> I will put a few braces across the top of the tank, for support maybe a 4 or 5 inch brace every 2 feet or so. This 4 feet by 8 feet tank would allow me access from all sides never having to reach more than the standard 2 feet of a normal tank. Plumbing would also be easier than to plumb multiple tanks together, and keep adding extra pumps and filters. I could also go the Rubbermaid 300 gallon trough route. It would be cheaper, but I am not sure what would be best. Or I could go with multiple tanks and keep adding another tank and plumbing them together as I grow. <Many possibilities> I am getting started on developing a website to sell the clams across the U.S. I have a basic knowledge of developing a website and have a friend who does this for a living so I am sure he would be willing to help me with all the hi tech stuff. (i.e. charge me) ha ha. <Ask about in the club... become facile at doing the ongoing work on the site yourself> I do appreciate the help you are providing. The people that you forwarded our last email to could you let me know what each of these people do? Or have to offer? This way I know who to bother for what I need. <Mmm... It's better for them to come forward, identify themselves as they, their companies have time, interest my friend. You will understand this in the coming years. Bob Fenner> Endless thanks Rob Huss

Clam Business!!!! Hey Bob, Just wanted to say again that it was a pleasure to meet you in Pittsburgh this past weekend. I really enjoyed hanging around with you and the fish geeks as my wife calls us). Anyhow I have been hot and heavy on coming up with some plans to start selling clams. <Very good. You have all going for you here... a good background in the theory and application of captive husbandry, a great location for this business... and a true burning desire for being successful at it> My wife is possibly as excited as I am. So what kind of info and assistance can you provide to help me get setup? <Mmm, all sorts. The best things to do at this point are categorically to talk with friends in the trade who can/will be your suppliers. I'll cc them here, asking that they talk with you re the enterprise. At the same time, start drawing up plans (you mentioned conversion of your garage) for your physical plant... talk with others in the marine livestock trade re inexpensive gear including tanks, lighting, calcium reactor or other mech. for supplying alkalinity and biominerals. And lastly, develop a marketing plan... who are your customers? How do you intend to reach them? How will they know what you have? Do all this on paper... such that if you had to present it to a bank, they would understand our industry, your desires> With a new baby coming my wife is excited about the possibility of helping out with the clams as it may help replace her lost income from staying at home. Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated. <A step at a time. Do contact me/us as the project unfolds.> Also you said you would be able to provide me with some contacts for vendors to pester about donations for the club to help us grow. <Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/adtrackdb.htm> Once again thanks for your efforts, your book CMA. is the reason I even have a tank at all. And if anybody pays me a compliment, it is a compliment to persons like yourself who help this hobby become a passion and a lifestyle to so many. Thanks again, Rob Huss <Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Introduction (Freshwater, Marine Livestock from Brazil) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:52:58 -0300 <Thanks for this. Will post on our sites for your exposure. Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com> DISCUS AMAZONAS RIVER- PIRANHAS SPECIAL PRICE, DIRECT FROM RIVER TO YOU UNBELIEVABLE PRICE BRAZILIAN FISHES MARINE ATLANTIC FRESH WATER AMAZON RIVER DISCUS GREEN - FOUR COLORS RED-Piranhas SPOT BLUE ETC IGUABA OCEAN RUA SÃO PEDRO 4O , IGUABA -RIO DE JANEIRO BRASIL FAX-55 21 22648222 EMAIL: [email protected] [email protected] , BRASIL MARINE FISH-promocion salminus maxillosus SEAHORSES YELLOW; BLACK, RED PROMOCION -POMACANTHUS PARU French angel LARGE -30CM ETC dear sirs we are a company established in Rio de Janeiro (BRASIL ) since1993, we are specialized in marine and freshwater fishes > can dispatch to around the world with good freight rate and good connections to make shipment arrival on able time fresh water : Potamotrygon leopoldi, potamotrygon motoro, arapaima gigas, salminus maxillosus, wild discus( Amazon region), plecosL-46 + L-25+ L14+L-15 +L17 saltwater fishes : queen angel ( show size around 30cm), French angel show Cuban hog , gray angel, red sea horse, yellow sea horse, flame back angel ,(better price from brazil), royal Gramma (better price from brazil), Spanish hog, golden ell and much more we are waiting for your

Coral Wholesaler Thanks for the info Bob <Anytime my friend. Your success is mine as well> We plan to start small and slowly work into a larger operation. Right now my partner and I are looking at wholesalers that are working out of Indonesia to see where we could buy from. So far we are looking at 500-1000 dollar min orders. Do you happen to know who is running trustworthy operations in Indonesia? <I would actually not go this route. Look instead to buying from Fiji and fragging, raising the corals from there... much more reliable, consistent supply. Do contact Walt Smith at WSI, Pacific Aquafarms and Scott Cohen at Sea Dwelling Creatures ([email protected], [email protected]) re establishing relations. Well be chatting, Bob Fenner> Thanks again for your time Alex Gawura

Fish Wholesalers Hello, I am a new (7 months) pet store owner and was wondering if you would recommend any fish wholesalers for the following: Freshwater Fish - I currently order from local suppliers (oversea imports) who generally supply decent stock but have limited selection. I tried Ekkwill several times but always suffered very high losses due to apparent bacterial infections that did not respond to any treatment, so I am a bit gun shy of Florida farm fish as others in the trade have told me they have had similar experiences. I am looking primarily for community and south American cichlids/catfish as I am very happy with our African cichlid suppliers (Old World and Exotic Tropicals (local)). <Am surprised at your experiences with Ekkwill... we should talk over your acclimation procedures. Have you read those posted on WWM? Here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm> Saltwater Fish - I currently order exclusively from Quality Marine and have been extremely happy with the quality of their stock but was wondering if their are other suppliers you would recommend. <Sea Dwelling Creatures is a nice alternative to QM: [email protected], Maybe All Seas if you know what to pick/choose from them.> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard <Need to know a bit more about you, your business. Where are you located? What size (volume, turn) is your store? Do you have a specialty, like live plants, reef... that you do or would like to emphasize. Please do read through the Business Index of WetWebMedia.com for others input that is archived. Bob Fenner>

Re: Advice for starting curing system Anthony Calfo here my friend. Steven Pro forwarded your query to me for a shared opinion. I do indeed have great experience curing live rock having moved moderate to high volumes of reef products as a wholesaler and retail for most of the last decade (moving almost 1000lbs of live rock weekly at the height of it all). Live rock sales can be a fun and reliable source of income. It certainly is a staple in the industry. My first piece of advice is to not get greedy with profits... enjoy high volume sales and loyal referrals for delivering a good product at a good price. Some of the critical factors to curing live rock on a large scale include: VERY aggressive skimming is crucial!!! Two skimmers per system is minimum (cleaned alternately so as to never interrupt skimmate production). Large homemade Nilsen style countercurrent skimmers may be just fine if you need many and cant afford or don't want to invest in quality commercial units. The organics are so high in a curing system as you can imagine that even mediocre skimmers can perform reasonably well. Still... Aqua C is a great brand. Scrubbing (if necessary) and rinsing live rock on import BEFORE placing in your holding systems is CRUCIAL. Suspend curing rock off of bottom of tank and move water underneath (allows sediments/particulates to drop). Very strong water movement can make or break a curing system. No such thing as too much nearly so. The sand filter proposed is likely to be a big mistake (too fine, too much nitrification... we want organics skimmed out [exported] NOT nitrified=nitrate by a sand or trickle filter. Plan for at least a two week curing process (and reserve of product in inventory). Some shipments will be ready sooner, some longer. Little or no light is recommended during curing (reduction of suffocating diatom growths). All plant growth should be scrubbed off on import (as virtually all will rot... but rest assured it will regrow AFTER curing from seemingly nowhere with good water quality, light etc in customers tank. Best regards, Anthony Calfo

Live Rock Collecting Bob, <Hello> My name is Eric Hall and I am a Life Support Systems Operator at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach. I was referred to you by Eric Rood who I know through a mutual friend. I have two very interesting scenarios that I would like your feedback on. I have been approached by a very small time Live Rock collector named Louis Wright to help him with a challenging venture and I would like your opinion of its feasibility. A few years ago he started a company called Ocean Life International and has recently collected 50 tons of Live rock from the Marshall Islands. This was his first attempt. His crew was terrible and they were very inexperienced and very negligent and ran into tremendous problems. As a result the Live rock came back in terrible shape. He has been unloading it at base rock prices as a result just to get out from under it. Lou also caught a lot of heat from the major wholesalers here in the LA area for the new competition. Since then he has vowed to correct his mistakes. Now he has come to me and an Aquarist from my aquarium to help him get a second batch of rock from the MI and keep it in good shape. We have purchased a 150 foot ship, a professional crew to handle the boat and are in the process of retro fitting the ship to keep the rock alive on the 20 day voyage back from the Marshall Islands. <Interesting... lots of pitfalls to be avoided...> Lou has agreed to only sell to the wholesalers to keep them from being too upset with his efforts. We want to collect 300,000 pounds per trip. <Mmm. What do you figure your net landed cost per pound to be? Are you familiar with the "players" in the field, going rates for this product?> We obviously are not going to be able to unload that rock all at once as the demand is not that strong, so we want to build a large scale holding here in Los Angeles to keep the rock in good shape until it is needed by area wholesalers. <Very expensive... to move, operate such a ship, process this much material facilely... many logistics, legal challenges... Holding the rock is not likely to be economical> The second scenario is that Lou was recently approached by the owner of Sea Dwelling Creatures (They are long time business associates) out of Fiji to possibly provide an economical alternative to the airlines to transport the rock to the US. Apparently the airlines have just raised there shipping charge $1.00/lb. <What? I haven't heard of this as yet... the Pacific Airlines rate recently was more like less than this a kilo...> SDC would like him to bring the rock back and hold it until needed. <Have you spoken with Eric or Scott Cohen yourself re this?> Eric Rood told me that you are familiar with Walt Smith and his operation in Fiji. Is this something that would benefit Walt? <Will cc him here re. He can/will contact you if so> We are trying to help everyone save or make money while making some of our own. I know this seems off of the wall but anything you may be able to offer from your personal experiences would help me make sound decisions. If possible I would like to talk to you. I can be reached at (562) 439-XXXX or I can call you if you like. Thank You. <Much we could discuss... let's leave it to folks in the trade to respond to you at this point. Please re-contact me in a few days If I can be of assistance. Bob Fenner> Eric

Pet-fish livestock business Hello: My name is Richard and I am an American living in Shizuoka, Japan. I noticed from your resume that you have been a buyer. I am hoping to do that too and wondered if you had any advice, or better yet, leads. I have been selecting Koi for individuals in the US but would like to expand into tropical fish and start buying for wholesalers, etc. If you like tea, I would be happy to send you some in exchange for your valuable advice. (Shizuoka is famous for green tea) Thanks in advance Richard Davis <I am happy to help you. Can you explain a bit more re what it is you wish to do? Do you want to purchase freshwater livestock and Nishikigoi in Japan for distribution there? Or to ship, transship elsewhere? Or? Bob Fenner>

Re: Pet-fish livestock business Dear Dr. Fenner: <Just Bob please> Wow. Thanks for the very quick reply! In a nutshell, I'd like to buy in Asia and sell in the US. Up to now, I have been doing this on a very small scale by selecting high-grade Nishikigoi for clients in America. Now I don't even know if the job I am thinking of even exists but my dream is to go around Asia sourcing, selecting, and shipping ornamental fish for wholesalers in the Americas and Europe. Does this type of job exist? <Mmm, yes... you are an example of it> Or do wholesalers in the US simply buy without checking beforehand. <Smart ones do not "buy w/o checking"... The larger players visit their suppliers, their facilities... You could become an intermediary. Have you worked out business, marketing plans for who your customers are, how you would service them? Bob Fenner>

Re: Intermediary: Pet-fish livestock business Hello Bob: Could you name some larger players that buy in Asia and might need an intermediary? <Let me contact some friends in this capacity. In the meanwhile please study starting here: http://www.aquarama.com.sg/ and consider joining, going to Aquarama (likely the InterZoo in less than two weeks time in Germany is too late for you). We'll be talking. Bob Fenner> Thanks again Richard

Help!!!!! (Icky ich, crypto, and what else!?) I have my own tank maintenance company and have been having a big problem with saltwater fish in general. I have a resale license so I pick up fish for my customers. I have had a big problem with them staying alive in the holding tanks that I have. I have tried everything and I am pulling my hair out. They look great the first day or two, then they start breathing fast break out with ick and die soon after that. I have tried meds, freshwater dip, and probably ten other things and nothing works. I have even torn the tanks down cleaned them out and set them back up and that doesn't work. Tangs are the worst and clowns run a close second. Any ideas? Any thoughts that you might have would be great. Jim <Sounds like they are beginning with Amyloodinium and progressing to Cryptocaryon or Brooklynella. Bob has written extensively on treatment and receiving protocols. Begin reading here for ideas and follow out to other articles and FAQ's http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm You may wish to consider another wholesaler, too. -Steven Pro>

Clams (for sale) Hi Bob, Thanks for adding my link to your site. :) I appreciate your support. Saw Scott at SDC this past Thursday and he is getting a nice shipment in a few weeks, now you know I will be there. <Like Xmas, Bdays for adults> This is a lot of work but am enjoying it. Take a long time to answer e-mail regarding clams and posting pictures but I want to get the name ClamsDirect out. :) Household name for clams buyers. :) <Mmm... do keep building your "brand"... I would suggest you consider placing small, strategic ads in FAMA, having a considerable, substantive website. Bob Fenner> Best Regards, Barry

Re: clams I am joining AMDA, I think it is good and maybe be some good advertising for us. What's you thinking on this? GREAT thought about FAMA ! Barry <Hello, this is Steven Pro. I am one of the guys that helps Bob answer his emails. I am leaving this email for Bob to respond to, too, but I figured I would give you my two cents. I am a former Board Member for AMDA and a current regular member and I would not encourage people to join. I will not be renewing my membership. Your money will be better spent elsewhere. -Steven Pro>

Re: clams I am joining AMDA, I think it is good and maybe be some good advertising for us. What's you thinking on this? <Mmm, the American Marinelife Dealer's Association is at a lull... not much of any advertising value here. But worthwhile to involve oneself in the industry> GREAT thought about FAMA ! Barry <Do include an image or two... perhaps get a friend to write up "your business story" as an article... A tremendous boost. At some point we can/should talk over your carrying Knops' Clam Book, a few other titles (they don't die!) and Calcium Reactors of a line or two... and the great consumable products which are feeder stocks and supplements... All important and profitable tie-ins. Bob Fenner>

Re: clams Thanks Steve for your input. <You are welcome.> Most hobbyist do not know what AMDA is. <Correct, it will get you very little publicity. The membership is only $50 per year, but for that you get next to nothing; listing on their website and a VERY occasional newsletter. I also strongly disagree with the current leadership and the direction the organization is taking. Sincerely, Steven Pro>

Re: clams Boy you are funny. :) " They don't die" <Keep this statement in mind as your "livestock" business progresses> I have wrote to Daniel a few times and has been helpful in answering some of my question regarding something he states in his book, "Giant Clams" I also drop him a note saying what I was going to do with my business, never replied. <A shame... he may not have received your note. Jules/TLF distributes the one title in the west (DianaF the rest of Knop Products)> I am sure he has heard this before and thinks this is another hobbyist trying to dabble in this kind of thing. Not true on this end. Spent several hours making a business plan and setting up the proper equipment to better house the clams before shipping. Had my shipping boxes examined by FedEx testing facility to help in shipping to avoid some lose. <Mmm, good> A lot of business start off small but can turn into a big business if willing to devote the time and some money which I am willing to do. Being in business I also know that you have to have some folks willing to work with you like Scott and a few others. You of course. :) I was telling Scott the other day that by years end my marketing plan is to have approx. 300 clams in stock at all times. Don't think he believe me. <He should. SDC goes through MANY clams> From the 48 shipments that I had done in the past 3 week, I have had nothing but praise in regards to my product and customer service. I have always thought word of mouth advertising is the best advertising. <Ah, good> Any comments from you or feed back as to how to better do things, I ALWAYS have a opened mine. <A trait to be praised, emulated and cultured. Bob Fenner> Regards, Barry See my new "Banner" :)

Malawi Cichlid Exporters Hi I'm a Danish breeder of cichlids from Lake Malawi and I'm looking for addresses from exporters in Malawi. At the moment I only have the address to Mr. Stuart M. Grant, but I know that there are others. I've heard of a company called Malawi Aquatics Ltd and they should be located in Chipoka, but I can't find any info about them. Can You please help me with addresses?| <My best help is to refer you to a friend, associate in the trade, Mr. Pablo Tepoot of New Life Enterprises. In Florida his business numbers: 305-245-1906, fax 305-248-7450. I will cc him on the Net, but he has told me he rarely checks same... no doubt from his many business commitments: Raising African Cichlids on their two farms, make fish foods, writing/publishing/distributing books (including two on Cichlids). Be chatting, Bob Fenner> Best Regards Carsten K. Larsen www.malawicarsten.dk

Biz advice... My Boss wanted me to ask if you or anyone in you direct area knows anything about marine wholesalers? I am helping him set up his tank but I have no idea about wholesalers. I have been a civilian up till now and he is just starting marine. Looking for Best quality, service, selection and price. the only one I new of was Quality Marine. Thanks for your help aquarium gods :-) John Moyer <Quality Marine has had one of the best reputations for many years. I like them very much myself. I will say though, that if you do not live close enough to LA to cherry pick for yourself... it is pot luck with most shippers. They are all dealing with wild harvested product weekly that is turned over very quickly and is at the mercy of the airlines and the elements. I strongly recommend to all remote retailers that you find a jobber to pick your fish for you from among the various wholesalers (a paid cherry picker). I discuss the merits of the procedure and the nature of the entire shipping/receiving livestock process in my Book of Coral Propagation if you are interested in the nuances here. Else, more information on jobbers, wholesalers, and other industry personnel can be found by joining any of the professional organizations or industry pubs like Pet Supplies Marketing or Pet Age. PIJAC is also a great place for industry information. Do research them on the Web. Best regards, Anthony Calfo>

Starting a Salt Water business... Bob, <Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels to Australia to show the Aussies how beer drinking is really done!> Hello again. I have decided to start my own business. <welcome to the industry my friend. I wish you the best of luck and the strong admonition to form and revise your business plan often (don't become a statistic!)> As you can tell from the e-mail, I have decided to call it BroadWave Reef & Fish. I am focusing on salt water fish and corals. We will also be diversified into tank maintenance and set-up/design. We will be on the web soon. My concern is whom do you recommend, vendor name, to get my livestock and coral from? I have looked through FAMA as well as searched the internet. There are a lot of people who will supply wholesale, but since I am new to this, I am not sure who has quality livestock and corals and who doesn't? <Really... when you don't live near LA to cherry pick, sight unseen from anybody is as good or as bad as another. I STRONGLY advise that you pay for the service of a good jobber (AKA fish picker) to be your eyes and ears in LA. They will hand-select your order for a nominal hourly fee. Even $50/hr for two hours to pick a $2000 dollar order is money well spent compared to your alternative of having someone making minimum wage selecting it. As far as who to pick... a tough call...many good, more bad ones. Overall it is hard to go wrong with Quality Marine is they will take you as a customer (especially if you use a fish picker). But don't limit yourself. Let your jobber advise you on trends among the importers. To find all of these industry professionals, subscribe to Pet Supplies Marketing and/or Pet Age magazines. They are industry trade journals with indexes to industry wholesalers, manufacturers, importers, jobbers, etc. Make contacts and browse their catalogs to see what interests you and again, let you jobber help with the decision> I am also considering becoming a Red Sea "expert" retailer since I am in Boston and shipping should be more cost effective. Whom in the Red Sea do you know that I can start building a relationship with getting livestock from? <None can be said to be unconditionally exceptional. You have to browse your options from among the importers listed to see who can serve you best (beyond price, connections from their stations to your airport, freight restrictions, policy restrictions, etc> Thanks for your help as always!!! <best of luck... the industry can always use another ethical vendor <wink> Anthony>

Clams (Tridacnid biz) Hi Bob, It was nice to see you at the last meeting. Randy has a nice tank. <Very nice> Ok, here's the deal. I need your help. I am setting up a clam tank so that I can obtain clams and then sell them to reefer for a reasonable price, not these prices that some of these LFS are selling them for. Example a 2" Maxima for 59.00 to 89.00. <Mmm, there are valid reasons for this sort of retail pricing... as you will soon learn> I have real passion for clams and would enjoy doing this in my spare time. I client already. <Okay> Do you know where I can find a importer that I can have clams shipped direct to me via LAX. I know some people that are getting there clams from Marshal Island but he will not give me his connection. I will have all the proper permits and such. <Let me send this around to a few friends in the trade for their response to you... Do contact me if you hear from no one. Be seeing you. Bob Fenner> I hope that you can provide me with information. Best Regards. Barry

Re: clams Thanks for the forwarding message. I would like to talk with Scott, so feel free to give him my number 619 593-XXXX <Will send> Is he a broker or wholesaler? <A marine livestock wholesaler in L.A. and more... they own, run collecting stations where the water is warm and clear (wish we were there right now). SDC, Sea Dwelling Creatures.> The reason ask , as he states that Marshall Island is only doing business with SDC on the west coast. I know that Marshall Island is shipping to Dallas. Again, thanks for your help. Barry. PS It doesn't have to be Marshall Islands , it could be Tonga or elsewhere. I only mentioned Marshall Island as I know that is where this person is getting his from. <Be chatting... for sure. Bob Fenner>

Re: clams Bob, Who is Barry? Is he a hobbyist or a wholesaler? <A hobbyist trying to become an e-tailer...> Marshall Islands is currently only selling to SDC on the west coast. If he is affiliated with a store, we probably have the largest variety of clams available in the country. If he is a consumer, I don't have any suggestions for him. As you alluded to him, clams aren't cheap. I can't speak for the retail market, but we only mark up our clam prices about 35% after landed costs. Give me some information on Barry, and I'll respond to him directly. <Thank you my friend, trade associate. He is an earnest individual who is not currently in the industry, but wishes to establish a business direct-selling tridacnids to end-users. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Scott

Re: clams Thanks Bob, I realize they have to mark up to get there profit margin to cover overhead. But I still think I can go it cheaper. <We shall see. Am always happy to assist honest, industrious people in our interests. Bob Fenner> Thanks for your help. Barry

Re: clams Thanks Bob, I'll drop him a line to see if there is something that can be done there. <Again, thank you for your diligence. Let's build our trade together... a relationship at a time. Bob Fenner> Scott

Re: clams Bob, I really thank you for your help. Like I said I have a passion for these animals and would enjoy doing this and don't expect to make a BIG profit as my overhead will be very small. Like to just be able to provide nice clams to hobbies like myself for a fair price. Barry Hope to see you this coming Tues. <Hotay! Bob F>

Re: clams Barry, Bob forwarded your message to me. Perhaps I can help. For starters, where are you located? I'm wondering how cost effective it will be for you to land live product with consideration for Int. and domestic freight, etc. Also, as Bob implied... there is indeed a reason for why the retailers charge so much for clams. Part of it in some cases is higher profit margin. But the overhead for a full store is dear and the money has to come from somewhere to operate at regular hours and be available for customers on a whim to stop in. I am certainly not condoning price gouging.. but I see and agree with Bob's point, and you will soon too my friend. Your advantage will be that if you are working from a home based business, by appointment and the like... you will not have the same overhead or need for such a high margin. The disadvantage for you will be getting a supplier to talk to you and sell in smaller quantities. You will soon be amazed at how aggressive the clam farmers can afford to be with pricing and minimums. Nothing inappropriate... just market law: supply and demand. For starters... overseas aquarists are generally willing to pay a lot more for clams than American aquarists.. so the clam farmers do what any of us would do... they sell as much as they can to the overseas clients first. Unless you are suddenly willing to compete at several hundred dollars per clam for cover girl colors with German dealers <wink>. <Double wink> So the clams that are left (and there are many, but not so many that they can fill all orders easily...clam farming is hard/profit risky work...seriously) are then moved to the Americans. <Well... it's not "this bad" IMO/E> Because of the skewed market dynamic with availability, the farmers impose very high minimum orders for direct distributors. Now if you are telling me that you can take 1000+ clams at a time with only a "slight discount" in price (less than 10%).. I will say that you have a shot at selling cheaper clams (and getting to cherry pick some sweet ones for yourself <smile>). However, if you only intend to stock a couple hundred pieces or less... you are going to find a sudden appreciation for why retailers buy clams at a premium from wholesalers (rather than direct import) and why they need to charge so much. I certainly don't mean to discourage you... but you do need to know the nature of the beast. It is not at all designed for the small merchant. Best regards, Anthony Calfo <You may know (or not!) that Anthony is a semi-old salt in the trade, culturist, author (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bkcorlproprev.htm). He's been there, done that. And will help (for vino!). Bob Fenner>

Questions on acclimating fish for retail sales.. Hi Bob, My name is Leland Foley and I am starting a Marine Fish/Reef Retail store. <Outstanding... I will gladly shake the hand of anyone who would (try to) be self-employed. Welcome to our industry> I have worked in many other retail stores, including a couple of years for Inland Aquatics. <Ahh, Morgan Lidster and I are known to each other> Anyway, I have been around long enough to learn a great deal about fish acclimation, and I really like the way you suggest to acclimate marine fish, but I have a few questions. <Please> 1.) How do you incorporate dips into your Guerilla Acclimation Techniques? I believe, as I'm sure you do as well, that the PVP based dechlorinator, in combination with the methylene blue really helps the fish to survive the stresses of shipping, <Yes> but after this acclimation procedure, would it be too stressful to put them into a formalin dip before putting them into the main system tanks? <Good question... as it has the usual (lame) "it depends"... by and large if most all marine fish livestock is in "good enough" shape from this point in an/the acclimation protocol, it's "probably okay" (more beneficial than potentially detrimental) to proceed with another dipping/bath sequence...> I'm a strong believer in formalin dips and freshwater dips. They are primarily what I use when I receive a shipment of fish, because I'm sure as you know Clownfishes, and others will die of Brooklynella or crypto quite quickly if not treated immediately apron arrival. <Agreed, especially with Clowns> My acclimation procedure consists of floating the bags to equalize the temps, and then in small batches putting the fish into a saltwater and Formalin dip, or a straight freshwater dip with bicarbonate. I've found that a great deal of fish will die in a freshwater dip, but do just fine in a saltwater with formalin dip. <As always... intelligence and experience go into deciding/judging dip types, duration...> Then the fish are removed from the dip and placed into a quarantine system (500 gal.) that is run by oversized wet/dries, mild protein skimming, and very strong U.V. sterilization. The fish are given high quality fresh seafood (shrimp, squid, marine fish, etc..) treated with garlic and Metronidazole for the first week then flake foods and various frozen foods are introduced. <Wow, quite an expensive undertaking... but worth it> I only use the garlic as a flavor enhancer, it might help remove worms, but this is not the primary reason I use it. If a fish pops up with a bacterial infection we dip it again and carefully keep it overfed. If ich pops up on 3 or more fish we add copper to the system. Which brings me to my last question, 2.) What form of copper chelated or non-chelated can be used with UV sterilizers on? Or better yet what brand do you recommend? <In a large operation, volume or livestock flow-wise, non-chelated like the Kordon or Aquarium Systems product... Wouldn't, don't use chelated varieties on sleeved or non-sleeved UVs> Sorry for the long post, but as you know this is what makes or breaks ones profits in this industry, Thanks, -Leland Foley

Korean seeking advice... sources of marine livestock Bob, The following e-mail is pretty self-explanatory... A Korean importer looking for good Hawaiian, Fiji/Tonga distributors. I though you might be inclined to recommend some good folks with experience selling to the Asian marketplace. <Okay> Of course, now I have a craving for Kim Chi. I wonder how that will sit on the tummy for breakfast... hmmmm? Of course, if it is spicy enough... perhaps it isn't the stomach that I should be worrying about... hehe. <Never acquired the taste for such preserved fare> Happy Holidays... I hope you find yourself at peace and well fed after the New Year. Please share the well wish with Di <smile>. <Will. And thou. Bob F> Kindly, Anthony Dear Sirs, I am pleased to inquire about the source for exporters. Just, I am importing ornamental fishes from worldwide in Korea. But, I have no quality information for the suppliers of Fiji, Tonga Liverock and Hawaiian marine fishes. So, I wish to get helps from managers in the same kind business and wish this not impolite to you. If you introduce some reliable suppliers to me, it would be so helpful to Korean hobbyists and encourage my business. Hoping your good news. Thanks & Best Rgds. Sincerely. Journey G. http://www.aquaplaza.com <Thank you for your query. I will send this about to friends in the trade with the hope they will contact you re their livestock. Other sources are listed on our site WetWebMedia.com's Links Pages. Bob Fenner> Little ocean in my mind . . . SANNAE TRADING Co., 002/1F #56 SOONAE-DONG BOONDANG-GU SEONGNAM-SI GYEONGGI-DO, KOREA FAX : 82 - 31 - 717 -7050 FAX : 82 - 31 - 717 -7050 ICQ : 115925037 / MSN MESSENGER : [email protected]

Fish stores Hello I was reading your vast array of information, on fish to business ideas. Well I have a couple questions, first how do I contact a whole saler from Brazil? <Mmm, research (on the Net likely, or the OFI perhaps... their link on WWM) to find such a firm/possibility (or maybe write the Brazilian government/business and ask for their help in identifying contacts> I want to get some stingrays and piranhas. Second where or if it's even possible to own a freshwater bull shark. <Mmm, have never seen this done successfully... like their family members, hard to keep> Do you think if I sell fish from my garage, I will make a good amount of money? <Not easy to do... takes a while to get known well enough... how would you advertise, make yourself, your livestock known to perspective customers? How would you ship, do commerce with them? I suggest working at either an e-tailers and/or retail fish store for a few months to gain insights...> So I can open up a store mind that I am only 21yrs.old thanks a lot for your time. <Does not matter how old you are... Only what you are able, willing to try to do. Bob Fenner> Sean Santyos

Employment opportunity for an experienced Koi breeder (posted 9/19/01) Bob, I am seeking an experienced Koi breeder/Manager for a Koi Farm located in Jamaica, WI. Please respond if you're interested or if you may be able to recommend someone or avenues for advertisements. <Thank you for your offer. Am too busy to take on "a real job" unfortunately. But will post your request/offer of work on our site (WetWebMedia), circulate it around, and gladly help you (gratis) distantly with input, content if I may be of service in your Nishikigoi endeavors. Bob Fenner> Thanks Norman Thompson

Caribbean Fish... (wholesaler in Colombia wanted) Hi Mr. Robert... I live in Turkey and want to import Caribbean fish, but could not find any exporter from Colombia. Can you help me? <Yes. Please look through the OFI's site, membership... and contact the suppliers listed there: Link toward the middle bottom on our Links Page: http://wetwebmedia.com/links.htm BTW for the most part, the same organisms are found throughout the tropical West Atlantic... so don't close your mind to ordering from other source countries in the range. Bob Fenner> Best Regards, Yildirim Okte [email protected]

East ornamental fish (commercial freshwater producer/supplier) Dear Sir/Madam, Sorry to interrupt you. I'm Jason Gao from Star-Trend & Guphy Fish Farm, Shanghai. We get your information from internet. We are a very nice supplier of goldfish, Koi and tropical fish in Shanghai, China. We will try our utmost to build a very nice cooperation with you. Our farm was established as a Nishikigoi nursery in 1992. We have more than 50 storing ponds in the land of 130,000Â©O. We are one of the largest fish farm in Shanghai, specialize in breeding freshwater fish such as Nishikigoi, goldfish, tropical fish etc. A large number of fish breeds are re-selected by us and these in inferior are abandoned. We have a great confidence in quality by paying a special attention to the health condition of our fish. We made a large delivery world-wide and domestic market under the perfect condition, live fish delivering system constructed by our experience in the past several years, so we have successfully offered the very reasonable price. We know clearly longtime cooperation must be based on sincerity, frankness and seriousness, and the most important is high quality fish, excellent service and suitable price. These just our best advantages. Maybe you have already had some suppliers in other countries and cities, we still wish you could have a try from us. It is our great pleasure to be of any help for the customers to get freshwater fish directly from China. We sincerely recommend you to have a try from us. We are sure you will be fully satisfied with them. We will be very appreciated if you could send us a response after you receive it and give us your advice. Yours sincerely, Jason Gao Shanghai Star-Trend & Guphy Fish Farm Tel: +86-21-65872583 Fax: +86-21-65872583 Address: Room 2009 No.1 Alley 100,E.Ti Yuhui Rd., Shanghai P.C. 200081 E-mair:[email protected] http://www.guphy.com <Thank you for your message. Though we aren't in the livestock (or drygoods) business ourselves, I will place your notice on our website (www.WetWebMedia.com) and send it around to friends/associates within the trade to help generate interest for you. Bob Fenner>

Thanks a lot Hi, Very thanks for your reply and notice. I believe you are kind to the others. And your company must be very good. Anyways thank you again. Please accept my apology for giving your inconvenience to you. Best regards, Jason <No worries my friend. Bob Fenner>

Re: how's it going, bob from fish doctors (wholesale health protocols) hello bob, now I am starting to get some real nice fish in from Australia Net caught M. personifers do u think I should feed them with Piperazine mixed with Mysis. by the way Mysis saved all my Moorish idols, and the entire family of Sweetlips. yippee to piscine energetics for that. which now I am a distributor for them on the in the SF area. <Great> also I import my fish from AMRI in the Philippines which I pay 20 bucks for them to send them for testing for cyanide, but alas death rates are still pretty high. <Yes... has little to do with actual cyanide practice there... much more to do with social dynamics, economics, practices of keeping the collectors poor... the animals, industry suffer accordingly> most of my saddlebacks seem prone to septicemia "reddish patches" what shall I do to stop this darn infection. <I would stop carrying A. polymnus from the wild... get the tank-bred ones from ORA, C-Quest, TMC... You could try furan compound dips/baths in dilute seawater for five minutes... keeping them in with your invertebrates after that...> my system goes entirely though a 520 watt emperor aquatics UV sterilizer which seems to be at the right flow rate of 35-40 gpm in order to give it the killing power of 90,000.but the disease does not seem to care about that. <More of a stress-contagion than actual infectious or parasitic disease... this species found in not so clear water in the sand... very stressful to be collected, shipped, held as it is...> ick is never a problem though, need help in what to treat them with thanks. thanks bayside marine aquatics formerly 5 years with Tom at the fish doctors, and he is finally tying the knot with his gal. in August Shaun <Wowzah! Another one down! Congrats to Tom... still under the vac. shop? Still living on the farm? Still rocking' with the band? Bob Fenner who sends his best>

MAC Correspondence I wanted you to see this. It appears that your distrust of MAC that you wrote me about may be warranted. They only want to "certify" fish if they have a 1% DOA rate and a 1% dead while holding rate at each point in the chain of custody. <Ludicrous. As stated before, in Paul.H's hands there is no such thing as "certification"... the man and this program are an outright FRAUD. I am writing the Packard Foundation re their trust and cash in this persons ideas and encourage others to do so. Ridiculous... these pie in the sky "standards" have naught to do with reality... and there is NO CHANCE of doing any of this "checking" economically at any length. Bob Fenner> My MAC Correspondence Back from Mexico... Just wanted to post the last communication I sent to MAC (David Vossler) so you guys know where I stand on this. Here are my main two concerns with the MAC standards. They are the same concerns I expressed during the public review session. 1. 1% DOA- I only bring in hand caught fish from the Solomon Islands, Fiji, and occasionally Hawaii. I am the ONLY wholesaler that is not importing fish from the Philippines and Indonesia. As we know, those are the two countries with the most collection/handling problems and longest flights. I have been told that you are receiving input from importers that their DOA is around 1% currently. Rarely do I have a 1% DOA rate- it's more like 3%-5%, and that is with HAND CAUGHT ANIMALS that are known to be hardy species. I have worked for 3 major wholesalers, have been present when shipments were unpacked, and can promise you without a doubt that the DOA is more than 1% for the majority of species. The next day, the DOA is more than 1% also for those animals. I personally unpack ALL of my fish shipments. Can the other wholesalers that are reporting data to you say the same or are they depending on their pack crew to provide the data? If you use 1% as the figure, I can PROMISE you that there will be NO MAC certified damsels in the United States. That's just one example, but there are many other species that are similar. For instance, if I import 100 Green Chromis and 2 get smushed in the corner of the bag during shipping (very common), the other perfectly healthy 98 are now not certified. I already know that MAC certified fish will be costing me more money- you can argue that it won't, but when you start adding this much paperwork to an industry there are costs involved. I will bring in ONE shipment of MAC certified animals that ends up becoming uncertified because of some silly problem and I won't bother to waste my money on MAC animals again. If you're so confident in the 1% data being reported to you, then I say it makes sense to use a higher rate (3%-5%) for the trial period. It looks much better to then go back and lower the rate for the large scale implantation of the program. That says "This industry is doing even better than we originally thought". If you start low, and then, as David said, raise the rate to be more in line with reality, you are saying "The industry is doing much worse than we originally thought". Possible Solutions: a. The only solution I see as making sense is to have MAC representatives present during unpacking at each point along the chain for a trial research period. The representatives would record the DOA rates. You don't have to do this for every place that wants certification, just enough to provide some REALISTIC DOA rates. In lieu of this, set the DOA rates for the pilot program higher, and let the bar code system determine the actual rates. Adjust from that point. b. David suggested that if a species became uncertified, that you could market it as coming from a MAC certified facility so you don't lose money by purchasing a certified animal and having to sell it as uncertified. That makes things too confusing- you'd then have MAC Certified Product, MAC Certified Facility Product, and Uncertified Product. I think that is a bad idea. 2. Unsuitable Species List- This is the one that will cause me to withdraw my support from MAC if it is not done correctly. Where are the statistics for every species available in this hobby showing their mortality rates?? I'd venture to guess that there are NONE. Knowing this, how could you ever determine what species are suitable?? There are many things that live wonderfully for the 2-3 weeks necessary to get them through the chain and to the hobbyist, but that have HIGH mortality rates after 1,3,6 months. So if you use industry professionals as the determiners, you will have incorrect data. I worry that MAC will use the Unsuitable Species list to ban things we do not have the technology to keep at this time. A prime example is Goniopora sp. This coral is the 3rd most imported, and the vast majority die at about the 6 month mark. Should this be listed as an unsuitable species?? I say NO. Why? Because 10 years ago all SPS (Acroporas, Hydnophoras, Pocilloporas, Stylophoras, etc..) corals were considered practically impossible to keep by all but the elite hobbyists. Had MAC been around and called them "Unsuitable", hobbyists would not have had access to them. Because hobbyists had access to them on a regular basis, the knowledge and technology was able to advance and the "key" to keeping these corals was figured out. These corals are not only able to be kept in captivity now, but they thrive and GROW! SPS corals are now the bread and butter of coral aquaculture! Goniopora, mentioned above, is currently tough to keep. I am embarking on a research project with Dr. Ron Shimek and the Marine Aquarium Societies of North America to start unlocking the keys to this coral. There are people having great success, but no one has pinpointed the exact requirements. Once we do this, Goniopora will be as easy to keep as any of the others! What makes me nervous about a "list" of Unsuitable Species is that the US Government would have access to it. They look to MAC to set the standard for the industry. If they see that MAC feels certain animals should be "banned" from the certification program, those are the same animals that the USCRTF could decide should be banned from import. That is VERY dangerous. Possible Solution: Instead of sitting down and determining what species currently have serious mortality rates, then having to update the list when animals were eventually determined to be viable, an alternate solution is to have a short list of things which are NEVER viable. Things that we KNOW the requirements for, and realize that it is practically impossible to fulfill those requirements in captivity. Off the top of my head, here would be my list: ANIMALS THAT GET TOO LARGE- ALL Sharks/Rays/Skates- They get too big and need tanks that are much larger than 99.9% of hobbyists have. Certain Groupers and Snappers that are popular in the trade also reach enormous size. ANIMALS THAT ARE OBLIGATE FEEDERS ON HARD TO OBTAIN/EXPENSIVE FOODS- The Orange Spotted Filefish is a popular species because of it's gorgeous coloration, but its food source is coral polyps. No one is going to feed these things expensive coral polyps, so they always end up wasting away. There are other species (especially butterflies) that are obligate polyp or sponge feeders and should not be imported. DEADLY ANIMALS- Blue Ring Octopus Certain people that import for Public Aquaria are probably going to disagree with this (or any) list. It is important to remember that MAC should be creating programs that affect the majority of the industry, not the minority, and the majority is catering to hobbyists.

Request for marine fish suppliers Dear Sir, We are one of the companies whose was a wholesaler of the marine fish in Malaysia. As we are currently looking for supplies of items such as aquarium marine fishes and live corals and also sea water fishes as for the live coral in your place there Can u please fax to me or reply me in email of your product range and details as what we want to looking for as soon as possible along with the prices... Our Fax Number: 606 -6318646 Name of company: Allied Aquatic Address : 652 Happy Garden , 70300 , Jalan Rasah , Seremban , Negeri Sembilan , Malaysia. Email Add : [email protected] <Well, we don't sell livestock, but I do have many friends, associates in the trade that do. I will send your message to them, and post your request on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com with your email addr.> Hope to hear you soon. Thank You :-) Best Regards, Henry Koo <Bob Fenner, who was in Kuala Lumpur, Pulau Redang, and Johor Bahru a week and a half ago>

Re: Request for marine fish supplier Thanks for your help. I would like to get supplier with who supplier the RED SEA fishes. Please can tell your friend. And reply me ok Thank you very much Henry <Will do so my industry/industrious friend. Bob Fenner>

Bagging a new way to treat fish (using Metronidazole/Flagyl) << This message was forwarded to you from Straits Times Interactive (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg) by [email protected]>> <Thanks for this Perry. Will post to WWM site. Bob Fenner> ORNAMENTAL fish being exported to other countries can now be treated while they are being transported. A medication, developed in Singapore, is placed directly in the plastic bags containing the fish, where it kills bacteria and parasites. So, during their journey overseas, the fish are treated while they travel. In the past, fish had to be placed in tanks containing medication for several days before being packed for their journeys to countries like the United States, Britain and Japan. Singapore is the world's top exporter of ornamental fish, accounting for one third of the $76-million market last year. It is considered a one-stop supermarket for such fish, and supplies 2,000 species for export to countries all over the world. Mr. Lim Lian Chuan, head of the Agri-food and Veterinary Authority's (AVA) Freshwater Fisheries Centre, explained that with labour costing as much as it does in Singapore, providing top-quality fish is paramount. This means getting the fish to market in top condition. 'Normally, the parasites would not affect the fish, but they are severely stressed when they are being transported because so many of them are crowded together. 'So even mild infections can be fatal then,' he said. Dr Ling Kai Huat from the AVA led a team of five researchers who came up with the simple yet effective idea of putting the medicine directly into the plastic bags the fish are transported in. He said: 'We ran out of chemicals one day, and I put the fish in a small bag to treat them. 'It struck me - why not use less chemicals and treat the fish in the plastic bag while transporting them. 'It's something so simple, yet we had not thought of it before because the mindset was always to treat the fish in their tanks.' The research took about two years. The officer-in-charge of the AVA's farming systems unit also narrowed down the cheapest and most effective medicines for treating the fish. For example, guppies, swordtails and goldfish are placed in packing bags containing chlorine dioxide, which stops skin parasites and bacteria. Angelfish, discus and Oscars and other fish in the cichlid family are plagued by gut parasites. These are treated with a chemical called Metronidazole. Explained Dr Ling: 'Previously, exporters had to mix the fish food with lukewarm water, coat the food pellets with the medicine and feed the fish this mixture twice a day for a week. 'Now, the medication is simply dissolved in the water. The fish ingests it and it's also absorbed through the anus. It is very effective.' He added: 'We looked at what is available and what is being used in other industries to come up with the appropriate medicines and treatments. 'For example, chlorine dioxide is already used in food processing to kill bacteria and parasites in raw oysters. 'Metronidazole is used to eliminate parasites in animals.' Mortality rates for the fish have gone down with the new method, said chairman of the Singapore Aquarium Fish Exporters' Association Fong Ching Loon, who has been using the new medicine and packing techniques for a year. In fact, while a 5-per-cent mortality rate is common around the world, the death rate for fish from Singapore is only two to three in a hundred. He said in Mandarin: 'With other medicines, put too much in the water and the fish die. But with these, I can actually use two to three times the dosage and the fish are fine. 'Now, more fish survive the journey overseas, and our customers say they're less susceptible to illness when they arrive as well.' IP Address:203.117.96.196

Feeder comet farm info request Dear Sir, We are a distributor in Vancouver Canada area, we are writing you and asking you professional help. As you may have known, at this time of the year, it's really hard to locate a good feeder comet farm. And most of our stores are now suffering from the absence of feeder fish; therefore, we are asking you help to release some feeder farms' information. We can thus solve the feeder fish' shortage problem. Thank you and best regards, James Chao Rain Forest Pet Spectrum Ltd. 4233 E. Hastings St, Bby V5C 2J5, BC Canada Tel: 604-299-1666 Fax: 604-299-1607 <Please do contact "Blue Ridge Fish Hatchery", "Nolt's Ponds", and "Billy Bland Goldfish" via the Net... you are welcome to mention my name in your correspondence. Bob Fenner in Singapore at the Aquarama show or would have URL's from the more recent "Pet Business" annual.>

Livestock Sources Bob, How are you? Remember me? This is Hong Tanks-A-Million). <Fine, yes my friend> I had a question for you... A customer has a mini-reef set-up and now everything is slowly but surely dying off due to a thermometer happening to explode in the tank. They believe it is due to mercury or another form of element used in the thermometer that is now poisoning everything. Is there a solution here or is it a futile attempt to do anything at all. <There is always hope... to thoroughly vacuum the substrate, replace the water a few times, use activated carbon in the filter flow path.> Also, I did ask you if it was ok for you to furnish me with contacts that only you would endorse for future imports. The main focus is in Belize, Red Sea, East Africa, S. Pacific specifically Fiji/Tonga) and a good Hawaiian source. By the way, what is a good phone number I can reach you at Bob? I also need the # to your friend from Terre Haute, Indiana. I need to get a lot of Caulerpa and fast for my mud filtration. <For Terre Haute, contact Morgan Lidster of Inland Aquatics... there website can be found on our www.WetWebMedia.com website... for the other contact countries I will have to do some looking... My friend Harry Reeves is hopefully still in business in Belize, the Red Sea you can check on the "suppliers" of livestock sources on the "Business Index" on the WWM site... East Africa... I don't know anyone there... Fiji/Tonga has got to be my friend Walt Smith (their sites on the WWM site)... Good to visit these places, people if you will be doing much business with them... let's talk further as I/we visit these places most years. Bob Fenner> Humbly yours, Hong

Your opinion (re a giant dream of collecting, processing, etailing rare angelfishes) Mr. Fenner, I plan on opening a internet based marine fish store which specializes in only the rarest and hardest to come by marine angelfish, and I would like your assistance in a few areas. <Not easy to do this business... hope to help you work in the industry first... Have you read over the "Business Index" part of our website: www.WetWebMedia.com? I suggest you look over "The Marine Center" site... link on WWM... as they do the sort of enterprise very well already...> My first question is what are the rarest and hardest to come by angelfish!? <Look over the survey pieces on Pomacanthids on the WWM site... and the reference works listed on the Bibliography/Further Reading areas on each article... get and read these over...> I've already decided to get clarion's, clipperton's, Conspicuous, scribbled, the masked angelfish, West African, the resplendent, the golden pygmy, the red sea angel, Armitage angel, and the Nahacky. I plan to catch most of these myself to ensure the quality and care taken to capture these beauty's. <Wowzah! Lofty goals indeed! Have collected about half of these myself... not easy to get to the areas of most... no realistic way to make "collecting and re-selling" them an economic enterprise... Perhaps your efforts would best be directed into investigating captive breeding?> and when I finally have them in the store they will be quarantined for at least 3 weeks before I sell them and of coarse ill make sure that they eat and are taken care of. And then my second question is what numbers should I maintain of these fish to appease the collectors? <They will tell you in time, turn... just a few initially.> I know that these fish aren't offered in the industry often, so I want to know what type of demand to expect. thank you for any help you offer and it will be greatly appreciated. thank you once again. Michael Camacho <Much more for us to discuss... very enjoyably... do you do much dive travel currently? You are welcome to join us on our regular outings. Very often go to, dive with such collectors around the world. Bob Fenner>

Retail Fish Quarantine System Bob, I just opened a new fresh - salt - reef store in Little Rock, AR in Dec. of 2000. I have since become the only saltwater store in a town of about 600,000. <Congratulations! Wowzah, what a market!> Sales are good and saltwater fish and corals are my biggest sellers so far. I have eleven 40 gallon SW fish tanks and four 55 gallon reef tanks. They are not on a central system and are filtered by Emperor 400's. The reefs also have Prizm skimmers. <Yikes... some upgrades needed now... or a whole lot of late nights keeping up these systems...> I have the occasional problem of parasites, frayed fins, and ick and have used Cupramine in the past to help rid these problems. (I have read some of the articles here about your views of copper) <Still the most assured treatment material...> I want to go to a two week quarantine system for the fish before they are brought out to the floor to be sold. I have plenty of room in the back to set up quarantine systems. <Great! There are a few stores, wholesalers that do this... Marine Center, a sponsor of WWM is one...> How is the best way to receive in the fish, acclimate them, and quarantine them? <Yikes... much to state here... wish you had time for a visit to some of my L.A. friends wholesale businesses... and to a certain excellent shop in Phoenix that does exactly what I know you need, will want to do... For now, please read over the "Acclimation" and "Guerilla Acclimation Techniques" sections posted on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com and all the business section...> Do you use copper or medication? <Not routinely> What happens if a tang in the second week of quarantine or on the floor gets ick? <All sorts of grades of treatment... if environmental manipulation, vitamins and cleaners will do it, so be it... otherwise, yes to copper> I would like to set them up on central systems and would even like to set up my floor tanks on a central system when funds become available. (I'm kind of stretching it to put in a quarantine system.) <Plan my friend... lost organisms, tanks with sick unsaleable livestock in them, taking up room, time cost more....> Also, who are some good suppliers of marine fish and corals? <See the Links pages on WWM... do you order from Quality Marine? Sea Dwelling Creatures? Underwater World?...> I am using Sea Dwelling Creatures and Segrest Farms and have been fairly happy with them so far. <Go with what you know... > Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated. I want to make this store the best it can possibly be. <Outstanding. Good attitude. Rest assured, I will help you in what ways I can. Bob Fenner> Thank you. Larry McGee Aquatic Designs Little Rock, AR [email protected]

UNFORGOTTEN PROMISE Dear Bob, I hope you can remember me. I'm the guy that wrote to you some time ago on why my larger tank did not do as well as the smaller tank although the lighting intensity is much more. I'm also the guy that managed to keep the Regal angel for more than 2 and a half years. <Yes, I recall> I have promised to look into the matter after experimenting. Sorry for the long absence and delay in writing to you. I have taken some of the "magic" beach sand from the smaller tank and put it into the sump of the bigger tank. Due to the sand bed and hydrogen sulfide, my prized regal and yellow tank died. <Sorry to hear.> The good news is 1. The bigger tank has never been better. In fact, it the best tank now! The corals are doing extremely well. I have finally found out that this is due to the "magic" sand bed and of course the death of the regal, which was also the culprit chewing on the corals. 2. My understanding wife and daughter bought me another 200G, FOWLR tank and you guess it right, I'm trying for another Regal! with mixtures of some BF's like the lattice, Pakistani and auriga. <Keep those two...> Just another promise. If you ever come to Singapore, be sure to look me up and I'll be your tour guide for free and the tour also will include visit to LFS here. <Ah, looking forward to seeing you then... will be out for the every other year Aquarama show late May into June... perhaps you can point us to some of the good fish shops to take photographs?> Thank you once again. Winston <You're welcome my friend. Thank you for the update. Bob Fenner>

Precious non-reef livestock, and Bargains in SG! Dear Bob, My, you are indeed "instant" in your replies. I will take your advice to keep "those two", which happens to be NON- REEF Livestock. Ha! Ha! <Ahhhh, good, they are indeed precious> I presently have 2 nos 200G(due to the blessing of those two) in my home, and 2 nos 55G, 1 no 90G in my office due to the stress of work and of course inducing the displeasure of my boss). <Hopefully he doesn't look at this forum...> I would like to share one advantage of being a Singaporean, reef hobby is "dirt cheap" in comparison to you guys over there. <And SG is a very civilized place en toto... one of my favorite places to visit> Listed below are prices in Singapore dollars. Just divide it by about 1.8 to get US Dollars. 1. 200G with corner overflow, full louvered doors, cabinet, cover, custom made sump plus delivery to doorstep. $1250.00 2. Corals Green Star Polyps $3.00/pc Buttons $3.00/pc Leathers/Gorgonian $5.00/pc Elegance $30.00/pc Live rock $5.00/kg Elephant ear Mushroom $30/pc Assorted mushrooms $5.00/pc Imported M'rooms (red/purple) $15.00/pc 3. Livestock Skunk cleaner $15.00/no Fire shrimp $15.00/no Boxer/hispidus $3.00/no Regal angel $18.00 Emperor/Majestic/Blueface $28/juv $45 adult BF's from $8.00 to $15.00 Ocellaris Clown $1.00 Percula/Irian Jaya $15.00 Copper band BF/Vermiculated or Singapore angel $3.00 Guess the list is enough to make you guys envy. <Yes, you are "close to the sources" and have very good air-services... the largest cost...> Looking forward to seeing you and as I have always told my overseas friends, "please e-mail me your itinerary and flight details, to get full hospitality. You are then assured of a "crash course" to see LFS and Singapore. <Outstanding... Will do so. Going to Bali/Lombok to dive, make pix u/w ahead of SG... will be there via United or Silk Air on the 30th of May... out on the 3d of June... will call you when there if this will work. Bob Fenner> Bye for now, Winston

Aquarama Show > <Anytime my friend. Glad to. Will you be going to the Aquarama show in Singapore this year? Bob Fenner> > I'm still a college students. I don't have the money or time to go over a foreign country. Still I have always wanted to go to Singapore. <Ah, I understand... still, there are always inexpensive means...> Just what is the Aquarama Show anyway? Are they showing new creatures suitable for aquarium trade? <This is a every other year trade show in the aquarium interest that showcases the best of what's new in cultured and collected aquatic livestock (along with the Interzoo in Germany which mainly showcases drygoods, these are the biggest, best "business" get togethers in aquatics> Just how many new creatures are introduce into the aquarium each year do you know? <Can only guess... likely a few dozen species, cultivars. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium fish trade Hi Bob, I am trying to find information on the international live fish markets such as trends and fluctuations e.g. seasonality, and if demand has increased or decreased over the last decade. It is information I am desperate to find for an essay which, I am writing on the sustainable development of the trade in the Maldives <Ah was there two years back... at the "Hilton" hotel... big money but worth it> Your resume indicated that you have had vast experience in this field and I would be very grateful if you could take the time to help me. <I will gladly assist you in whatever way I can... I think about the only outfit I know that might have accurate, useful data here is the O.F.I. the Ornamental Fish Institute... will have to wait till I'm home (away now) to locate their address... perhaps try your search engines for now> Thanking you in anticipation, Best Wishes, Seran Davies <Be chatting, and hopefully diving with you soon. Bob Fenner... who will be out for Aquarama in Singapore this May/June... you might give the folks there a hello as well.>

Marine Livestock source information. Dear Sirs, As we told you when we phoned you, we would like to receive prices lists of marine fishes, invertebrates, live rock and so on. Please, send them to this address: MARINE POND GARDEN C/AVD. DE LA FAMA,13,BL.5Âº,BAJO DRCHA. 30006 (MURCIA) ESPAÃ'A FAX : 0034 968 245173 E-MAIL : [email protected] Yours faithfully. <Hmm, we're actually not a livestock supplier (or dried-goods either for that matter)... but a non-commercial info/inspirational site in the interest. However will forward your message to others so they might help you, and encourage you to read over the areas marked Marine Livestock Collection, and under the Business Index, "Livestock" and FAQs from time to time as I'll post said collector's, transhippers input there. Bob Fenner>