Honey Dwarf Gouramis and water hardness adjustments 4/15/12
Howdy Crew,
I was thrust into this wonderful hobby because a neighbor was being transferred overseas and he convinced my kids that they needed his aquarium. As a result, I now have an 80 gallon planted tank with 6 Honey Dwarf Gouramis - Colisa labiosa (3 males and 3 females), a herd of eight angelfish, 1 bristle nose Pleco, and despite the warmer than ideal temps an ever increasing population of Panda Cory cats (last count 13). I have had the tank for almost a year. My question is with water hardness. When I took over the aquarium I followed the previous owner's instructions and performed weekly 25% water change outs using 50% rainwater and 50% tap water. That was also at the beginning of the Texas draught. When the rainwater ran out, I bought RO water for a while and then due to budget constraints, I slowly phased out the RO water and used 100% tap. After a year of no rain, it has started to rain again and my rain barrel is beginning to fill up. Here is my question, do I go back to mixing in the rain water or do I just keep things the same using 100% tap water? The Honey Dwarf Gouramis seem fine; the males are busy with their bubble nests and courting the females. The tank has been on 100% tap water for about 5 months with the following parameters:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 15 - 20
Nitrite: 0
Hardness: 150 - 200 ppm (dH 8 - 12)
PH: 7.8
Temp: 80 deg F
%25 water change outs - weekly or whenever the Panda Corys start repeatedly
swimming to the surface (sometime increasing water change out frequency to every 5 days).
Thanks for your insight and your wonderful website,
Elaine
<I wouldn't make any massive changes here, but if you can do water changes over the next few weeks to lower the hardness a bit, that'd be a plus. The ideal hardness for Colisa chuna is around 5-10 degrees dH. In other words, because your tap water is only moderately hard, about one-third rainwater and two-thirds tap should be about right. I use rainwater when I can, but yes, there are months in summer where I have to ration rainwater carefully, and so long as the water changes each weekend are not too big (say, 20%) then no harm seems to be done using plain hard tap water for a few weeks.
Cheers, Neale.>

Quick question about GH 3/13/12
Hi,
Thanks in advance for answering my question. I've searched your site several times but I couldn't find what I was looking for. I believe one point on the site you've said that pH level is far less important than pH stability,
<By and large, yes>
 and that most captive bred fish should generally be able to tolerate a relatively large range of pH, provided levels don't fluctuate. Does this hold true for hardness as well?
<To about the same "degree", yes. Best to have moderate levels of both, and have not fluctuate "too much" (a few tens of percent...) Note: pH is a base 10 logarithm... a change in one whole point is an order of magnitude different.>
Thanks
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: freshwater angelfish compatibility, water hardness, testing, changing    2/29/12
I have tap water that is hard (tested around 250 GH total hardness with test strip) I don't understand or know about tests for dH degrees.
<Strictly speaking, 10 mg/l calcium oxide = 1 degree dH. But many test kits, particularly in the US, give the result for general hardness in mg/l calcium carbonate (which isn't the right way to do this, but is done anyway). In that case, 17.8 mg/l calcium carbonate = 1 degree dH.>
The pH tests at 8.2 I'd really like to have cardinal tetras as you suggested, but would of coarse hate losing them even more. Can I soften and change the pH of our water? Is it too complicated or time consuming?
<Read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
All the questions you're asking are there! You cannot soften water without access to either RO water or rainwater. You must not change the pH directly, and domestic water softeners will not produce acceptable water for tropical fish. Sounds like you have very hard, very alkaline water, so you should choose fish species accordingly.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/HardWatrCommTkStkMonks.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Moving to an area with significantly higher KH  12/15/11
Dear Crew, Long-term reader of the site here, hoping you can help me out with a quick question. Before I start, let me thank you very much for WWM; it's been a total lifesaver on many occasions and I really appreciate all the work you volunteers put in. It would be great to have your advice now, if possible. I'll be moving to a new area in the next couple of weeks, along with my goldfish. I've read your very helpful article on moving, which has made my preparations a lot simpler, but I have one question I'd like some help with if possible. I've just tested a sample of the local water to find that although the pH matches the current tank water perfectly (7.5), the KH value is around 7.2 (as opposed to 4.5 in the current water).
Although the new value sounds great for goldfish in the long term, I'm concerned about the impact of such a dramatic change. As noted in the relevant WWM article, I'm going to keep the goldfish in their buckets and very slowly acclimatise them to the new water over several hours on arrival. However, would you also advise raising the KH value in the current tanks with Malawi salts before moving to reduce the difference between the two?
<Mmm, no; I wouldn't do this. The difference and present and new KHs will be fine. Your goldfish will easily make this transition in one go>
And if I were to try this, how much would you say I could safely raise the KH by over the couple of weeks before moving? And what should I ideally be aiming for to reduce the shock on arrival? Many thanks as always for your time and help, and for the amazing site. Kind regards, Sarah
<Again, I would not attempt to modify the hardness of either your present water or that of where you're headed to. You may notice some added tendency for algal growth in the new setting, but your fish will be fine.
Oh! Please read here on the excellent site Goldfish Connection re:
http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=135&parentId=13
Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Moving to an area with significantly higher KH   12/16/11
Hello Bob, Thank you very much for your reply, it was a big help (as was the article on Goldfish Connections).
<Welcome Sarah>
 I always thought pH shock occurred when there was a dramatic change up or down
<Mmm... w/ some (small mostly, w/o integumentary mechanisms...)
organisms... Not so much w/ anything but larval fishes really>
 - ah well, you learn something new every day.
<Me most every few minutes...>
 I appreciate your time and thanks very much again. Sarah
<A pleasure. BobF>

Need help with figuring the amount of crushed coral. 10/07/11
GF Sys., loss, lack of alkalinity
Hello Wet Web Media, I hope things are going well for all of you. I've written for information and direction from your sight before and loved every treasonable pearl of information and insight that I've received actually applied. I want to say thank you in advance.
Here is what I have now:
The first tank is a 75 gallon tank
Filtration = 1 Penn Plex canister (265 gph) and a Marineland Penguin Biowheel 300.
I also have an Aqua Euro USA 1/10 Max Chiller.
Temporarily stocked with:
2- Black Moore <Moors>, one telescoped each are 1 and a ½ inches long from mouth to tail. (This is there <their> permanent home)
3- Fantails each are 1 and ½ inches long from mouth to tail. (Moving to the 240gallon)
3-Ruyunkin each are 1 and ½ inches long from mouth to tail. (Moving to the 240gallon)
2-Blue Oranda each are 1 and ½ inches long long from mouth to tail. (Moving to the 240gallon)
Ammonia = 0.ppm
Nitrites= 0.ppm
Nitrates = 20.00ppm
Ph= 7.6 when I do a 25% water change about every 2-3days, however this will quickly drop down to 6.0 within 8 hours.
<?! You NEED to bolster the alkalinity here. READ: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
and http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwph,alk.htm
And at least use a commercial buffering product, perhaps Neale's mix to kick up your alkaline reserve. Too-low pH and too quickly/vacillating can be real trouble>
I've actually tested to see what the water was doing every hour and watched my ph levels drop down so low.
I also have a 240 gallon tank (96"x24"x24") that I'm still setting up. I plan to have only 18 Goldies in this oneI also have a 10 gallon qt tank
<Good>
I've read that to buffer the water so that it will stay stable at 7.2 or 7.6 you can use crushed coral. Now I've tried just using a mesh bag full of crushed coral however that wasn't enough.
<Mmm, no; wouldn't be>
My ph levels would just drop so rapidly down to 6.2 as though there was something gulping it down with a very wide mouth asking for more and laughing at my efforts.
<A lack of buffering capacity. Again, do STOP placing life/livestock till you understand, have solved this issue>
I toke liberty to clean and then mix some of the crush coral with my river rock substrate. Now, 1st: would this be okay to do. If so how much would you advise for me to use in this 75 gallon tank and anticipating having this same problem in my 240 gallon tank how much would I use in this one as well. I'm not concerned about the price because I have a 40lbd bag of crushed coral that I got from my lfs for $25. 2ndly, if this isn't good then please enlighten me with your valuable treasure of information so that my Goldies can thrive and live long healthy happy lives.
<Well... Am not a fan of the use of such gravel/substrate w/ fancy goldfish... Too sharp for their mouths, bodies when seeking food, flashing against the bottom... PLEASE look into additives you can place/mix in w/ your new water during change-outs... OR water that you have thereabouts that isn't run through a/the filtration process that is removing nearly all mineral. Do you understand?
Mmm, read here as well: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/GldfshH2OF.htm
Particularly the bits on GH and KH.
Bob Fenner>
Thank you for your time and insight; it's much appreciated by both me and my Goldies. Dedra
Re: Please help me save my babies; GF sys... water quality   10/10/11
Hello Neale;
<Dedra,>
I guest that I should have addressed my issue to you because I just don't understand what the last individual had said to me.
<That appears to be Bob Fenner, owner of this site.>
I've corresponded with you before in the past and had no problems understanding what you have instructed me to do.
<Good to know.>
Yes it is so obvious that I need to bolster the alkalinity.
<Well, only "obvious" if the pH drops down between water changes. If the pH is more or less stable, then leave it alone! Doing two water changes per week instead of one may be the best way to arrest small pH drops. Remember, pH drops in fish tanks because of the water pollutants accumulate over time. With each water change these are removed, so a water change is a bit like hitting a "reset" button. If you do two water changes in a week instead of one, you reset the tank twice, each time resetting the tank after a smaller pH drop. Now, alkalinity is the property of water that prevents pH drops. The more alkalinity, the less the pH can drop.
Freshwater aquarists hardly ever talk about alkalinity though; instead they talk about carbonate hardness. The two things are the same in terms of what they do, but the chemistry is looked at in very slightly different ways.>
I need to know with what being that I haven't a clue on what to use.
<My recommendation is simple. Use the Rift Valley salt mix described on the following page, but at only one-half the dosage recommended.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Where you see level teaspoon or tablespoon measurements per 5 US gallons, use half teaspoon or tablespoon amounts. The resulting mixture should create hard, alkaline water of the sort Goldfish love. You should find the pH somewhere between 7.5 and 8, and that it doesn't vary much between water changes, even if you happen to skip a week by accident.>
Could you please help me and instruct me through this faze.
The crushed coral is lying underneath the river rock so that my Goldie babies will not get hurt buy it.
<I would not use crushed coral in a Goldfish tank. Goldfish like digging, and plain smooth silica sand (sold in the US as pool filter sand) is the best thing, or else fine gravel. Coarse gravel is often used by sometimes they swallow pieces and it gets stuck in their throats. In any event, you can carry on using what you have, but do be aware that crushed coral in the aquarium or filter gets covered with bacteria, algae and dirt, and eventually stops buffering the water. So while it's useful in marine aquaria, even there it isn't relied upon to help with water chemistry.>
Thank you,
Dedra
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Please help me save my babies;   10/11/11
Thank you so much Neale :). I understand now and will use the Rift Valley salt mix you recommend.
<Glad to help.>
Once again I've learned something from you and am very please and satisfied. Hope you've enjoyed your vacation.
Cheers, Dedra
<Thanks for the kind words. Best of luck, Neale.>

Wonder shells    10/6/11
Hello, will wonder shells, those mineral blocks alter my ph or kH? I don't want to lower my ph or kH but do want to add some minerals as my gH is 0. I had replenish in tanks, they don't seem to like it!! Freshwater with comet goldfish, they acted funny and stressed, I have water that is softened through a tank in basement, have always used it but wonder if it would be good to add some mineral, have any other suggestions if you don't recommend wonder shells, I did a small water change so if wonder shells are ok can I add them if there should be some remaining replenish In water?
Thanks for all you help
Nice to have someone to ask
Cathy
<Yes will affect pH and carbonate hardness. Pointless products. Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Wonder shells   10/6.5/11
Thank you, I am a bit confused now, it does tell about water softeners and how they remove what is needed for goldfish, I have no other source and you say the replenish and wonder shells are pointless , what can I do to help with the water quality for fish health and still keep my ph and kH the same, I read one part says I have hard water at the range I have kH?? My kH is 180 using test strip, so maybe I am getting the minerals they need or at least have some hardness to my water??
<Your water is probably fine for Goldfish. 180 mg/l calcium carbonate is fairly (carbonate!) hard water, and should buffer the pH adequately between water changes. If you want, you could add some Epsom salt for general hardness, perhaps a teaspoon per 5 US gallons, but there's no overwhelming need if the pH stays around 7.5 and the fish are all happy. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Brewing Water
Do you have a recipe for a DIY Discus Buffer? - 9/20/11
<Afraid not. It's a difficult and potentially dangerous mix to make because it uses weak acids. Get it wrong and you'll dissolve your fish! So this is one time you want to buy the ready-made stuff. Cheers, Neale.

Water Chemistry and safety of fish     8/5/11
Hi Neale,
Hope you are well. A while back the site taught me how to make my soft water hard and buffered using Epsom Salt, Baking Powder, and Marine Salt.
I just purchased my 125 gallon and plan on using it mainly for gouramis, clown loaches, my handsome African Bush, and my frog Pleco. My water is slightly softer (I read ) then loaches like. My PH is good at 7.2, however my KH is low at 4 and my GH is low at 6. I read the loaches prefer 8 to 12 GH. So I wanted to bump my KH and GH up just a tad using the baking powder and Epsom salt, and not use the marine salt. My question is, in the long term, is it safe to use these ingredients with the loaches, since they are a delicate species? I just read on the all experts site they would not recommend using the Epsom salt with the clown loaches. Thanks, and have a great day. Sincerely, Lu
<Hello Lu. The short answer is yes, the Rift Valley salt mix, used at a low to medium dosage, is perfectly safe with Loaches of all types. Epsom salt is simply one mineral that makes up General Hardness, and baking soda one of the things that makes up Carbonate Hardness. The marine salt, at such minimal concentrations, is simply a source of trace elements that fish may or many not absorb from the water as opposed to their food (this aspect of their biology remains unclear). Yes, you can tweak the proportions up or down until you get the General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness levels you want; indeed, I'd recommend you do so, experimenting with perhaps half gallons of water until you find a ratio that works for you. Make a note, and then do that for each subsequent water change. There's a difference in the Epsom salt concentration used here, and the amount used when medicating fish with Epsom salt, as you'd do with Popeye or Dropsy. Let's say you use one-third the Rift Valley concentration, that'd be one third a tablespoon (1 teaspoon) per 5 US gallons. When medicating with Epsom salt, you're using about a tablespoon (3 teaspoons) per 5 US gallons, perhaps more, *on top of* the background level of General Hardness. In any event, Epsom salt is nothing other than [a] General Hardness and [b] a mild muscle relaxant when used therapeutically, and so unlikely to cause harm. By all means watch your fish, and if it acts unusually, try reducing the amount of Epsom salt through a water change. Alternatively, use a commercial Discus Buffer product instead of the Rift Valley salt mix. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Water Chemistry and safety of fish (Cory sand/sys.)   8/15/11
Hi Neale,
Thanks. Of course, I have a couple more questions. We discussed how Marble Veil Angel's fins are never perfect, due to their immune system and the normal bacteria found in their tank water. Well, I have to accept this, even though I find it horrible. However, even so, is there anything I can use in the water to help the fins? I do a 30% water change every week, sometimes I notice the small roundish spots of fungus that eat the fin, then disappear. There is only a very small amount of fin gone, and looking at pictures of marbles, my fish seems to be doing better then most.
Last question, I have always used in my first tank, Aqua Terra Natural Sand over plant substrate. I have Cory cats in this tank, and have had them in there for at least four years, with no problems. With better
maintenance, no more lost barbels, as you suggested. I recently read that this sand is 100% acrylic coated, but has no dyes and chemicals. Is this coating bad for the Corys, in the long term? I also recently bought Estes Marine White Sand, which is supposed to be safe for freshwater and not raise PH, is this sand safe for Corys? I have now used one five pound bag of the Estes Marine and the rest was the Aqua Terra Natural, which is only an inch thick, over plant substrate, in my new 125 gallon tank. Both sands
seem to be fine and soft. It's the acrylic coating on the Aqua Terra that really concerns me. Oh I can't wait for my 125 gallon to cycle, it is taking a long time. Patience is a Virtue! Thanks so much Neale, and have a
pleasant day. Sincerely, Lu
<Hello Lu. I haven't used either Estes Marine White Sand or Aqua Terra Natural Sand personally, but if they are chemically inert they shouldn't harm the water chemistry. As for the Corydoras, well, the main thing is whether a sand feels velvet smooth or scratchy like sandpaper. If it's smooth, then it should be fine. Grab a hand lens and take a look at some. Are the grains like mini gravel chips and nice and rounded? Or do you see glassy, sharp edges like little flints? Acrylic coatings should be harmless; after all, aquaria can be made from acrylic, as are numerous aquarium ornaments and accessories. So provided the Aqua Terra Natural Sand is sold as fish tank-safe, then you're good to go! By the way, a really big tank like a 125-gallon one should be safe to use within 3-4 weeks, and quite possibly sooner, in the sense of being big enough to dilute any ammonia from a handful of small fish. I'd have no qualms about adding 3-4 Corydoras paleatus for example to a 125-gallon tank right from Day 1, and I'd use them to cycle the tank, though keeping a close eye on ammonia and doing daily water changes and minimal feeding. I also tend to add plants to new tanks as well: they remove ammonia directly, and also carry the bacteria that "seed" the biological filter, jump starting the whole process. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Water Chemistry and safety of fish   8/15/11
Hi Neale,
Oh, great news. I called the company on the Aqua Terra was informed that the acrylic is good for life, and won't come off or harm the fish.
<Cool.>
I researched more on the Estes and, as told by the person whom sold it to me, it is inert, and from reading, a lot of people prefer to use it, as it does not raise PH and is very nice and fine. I also am gonna get some Caribsea sunset sand, I love the color and read on WetWeb, that it is safe for soft belly fish.
<Good to know.>
I have had tank running for about three weeks now, using ammonia to cycle.
My ammonia level is at 0, but my Nitrites are still at about .50.
<Ammonia cycling can take a while. If ammonia is zero, but nitrite at 0.5 mg/l, chances are things are well advanced and should be done within a week or two.>
I am so glad I can put plants in now, cause of course, I am like a little kid, and cant wait to put them in.
<Is actually an excellent approach: gives the plants time to establish themselves without fish uprooting them.>
As a paranoid mommy, I am afraid to harm the fish, but I trust your knowledge, and will probably put those little Corys in! I will send you a picture of both tanks when I get them situated.
<Sure thing!>
You and WetWeb deserve a lot of credit for keeping me in the fish hobby, so I would love to share my tank photos with you!!!
<Why not start a thread over at the WWM forum? http://wetwebmediaforum.com/
Some folks like to create "journals" for new tanks, adding updates over the weeks so people can comment on them and provide ideas.>
Thank goodness for WetWeb and you!!! Have a splendid day. Cheers Lu
<Most welcome, Neale.>
P.S I checked out planted tanks on You Tube, and if your interested in seeing some breathtaking set ups here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg8TQUUETcc
If you put in search area and hit search it takes you right to it....enjoy!!!!
<Some real nice tanks there. Cheers, Neale.>

Questions regarding plants, in bottled ("Spring") water 7/15/11
Hello:
<Hi there Suzy>
I am turning to you after my web searches have provided me with so many conflicting results that I am completely confused and unsure of how to proceed. My first impression of your site is that your advice is very much sought after and extremely helpful. Therefore, I have decided to bounce my problems off your experts in the hope of resolving my planting issues.
<Okay>
I have four Betta tanks � each tank has one male Betta and one mystery snail. The tanks are 2.5 gallon Aqueon Mini-Bows. Lighting is provided with 10 watt fluorescent lamps. I have the lights on approximately 12 hours each day. Water quality: GH � 0 to 20; KH � 0 to 20;
<Not much mineral content>
pH � 7.0; nitrite and nitrate � 0;
<Really, zero?>
ammonia � 0. Water temperature is 79 degrees in all the tanks.
I feed the Bettas pellets and frozen bloodworms. I feed these one at a time by hand so very few fall to the bottom. I feed the snails zucchini, cucumbers, spinach and algae pellets. Sometimes, I remove the snails from the tanks to feed them, especially the pellets. I do 50% water changes every Sunday. I use bottled spring water
<Mmm, an unknown... highly variable product. Not likely of much use in supporting live plants>
and add Aqueon BettaBowl Plus water conditioner � 1 tsp. per gallon; API Aquarium Salt ½ tsp per gallon (making certain salt is fully dissolved before adding water to tank);
<Mmm, the plants don't like salt; neither the snails>
and four drops Seachem Flourish per gallon.
Tanks #1, #2 and #3 each have one Wisteria plant. Tanks #1, #2 and #4 each have one Rotala wallichii. I haven't given Tank #3 another plant because of the difficulties I have been having. Each tank also has a Marimo moss ball all about the size of a golf ball. I replace plants that are dead/dying once weekly with my water changes as I don't like messing about in the tanks too frequently.
<Good>
I do remove dead portions daily with tongs. I buy my plants in bunches from PetSmart. I rinse the plants several times in the water I remove from the tanks for the water change. I have homemade anchors comprised of medium-sized substrate stones adhered together with aquarium silicone � these have a hole in the center. I put the entire bunch into the hole and let it sink to the bottom. If it doesn't land quite where I like, I move it but I do not push it down into the substrate, which is small gravel in Tanks #1 and #4 and pea-sized gravel in Tanks #2 and #3. I am having two issues. The first issue I am having is that in Tank #1 and Tank #3, the filter is very quickly covered in a very dark green slime.
<Likely a Blue Green "algae">
I have to change the filter at least every Sunday, sometimes more often. I have tried to wash the filter with the water I remove for the water change, but I can't get them clean enough where I am comfortable placing them back into the filter.
The other issue is that my plants don't survive more than two or three months.
<Mmm, easily understood. There's insufficient biomineral content in your water and no essential nutrient likely>
They do well for awhile and then the leaves start to become see-through. If I don't get the portions of the plant that are waning out quick enough, they �melt� when I try to get them. This, of course, makes my snails happy but my plants look �under the weather.�
Any suggestions you have regarding possible variations of plants that may do better in my setups or plant care would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time in reading my e-mail.
Sincerely,
Suzanna
<I'd have you read Neale's work: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
and the linked files above; particularly Rift Valley...
You'd do better to use other water... the bottled if you have issues w/ your tap quality, but adding the "Rift" mix to make it more suitable for your fish, snails and plants>
P.S. This is a little off the track but if you could answer another question � I have read recently that snails need a calcium supplement.
<IF their water, system otherwise doesn't provide this (is the principal biomineral alluded to above)>
I have never provided that for my guys. What is the best way to give them what they require without jeopardizing the Bettas?
<See the above reading. Calcium et al. can be added by way of foods, substrates...>
Also, when I am watching these
little guys, it seems to me they eat the healthy parts of the plants as well as the decaying portions. Is that common?
<For these species, yes>
Again, I thank you for helping me
out.
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Softened water or not?   4/5/11
My water comes from a well in my yard and goes through an iron filter and a water softener.
<Mmm, is the latter a "resin-type" that is regenerated/renewed with/via salt? These are generally not a good idea due to excess sodium>
The ph tests at the far end of the tester at 7.6 but it may be a little higher. Nitrates are 0
I've had several setups going for many years without issue and no crashes but after reading more about softened water I wonder if I should bypass the water softener when I do water changes?
<At least partly... In other words, I'd do so... for maybe 50% of the water, unless the organisms you keep "enjoy" the softness>
I've thought about using water even before the iron filter but that's actually rust colored so probably too much iron.
<I agree. There are other means of reducing the Fe content, but these are likely not practical for you>
I've had a few minor algae blooms but nothing to serious and it was probably my fault for over feeding.
Thank you,
Tim Bachman
<And you for sharing. Bob Fenner>
Re: Softened water or not?   4/5/11
How about using potassium chloride instead of salt in the softener?
<Mmm, no. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm
and the linked files above>
BTW is a ph of 7.6 a decent level?
<For most all types of FW systems, organisms and purposes this is fine. BobF>
Thanks,
Tim
Re: Softened water or not?   4/6/11
Okay so to add to this <?> I measured the KH which came out to almost 300/ppm
before and after the softener.
is this number anything to worry about?
I do have lots of plants and I've read hard water may be a little tough on them.
Should I also measure the GH?
<A good idea>
Should I look at doing 50/50 hard and soft or can I slowly switch to all water before the softener?
<Depends... on the make up of your water, the needs of the mix of livestock, what you're trying to accomplish...>
Should I worry at all about the hardness of the water?
<Only if it is adverse to the above criteria/desires. B>
Thank you,
Tim

Re: water hardness and high pH   3/17/11
Hi doc, I re-did the water hardness test - did a bit of research and reading first (thanks for the links) to understand what the hell it all meant, and ultimately got a reading of "5" (the JBL test appears to depict KH, and measures the number of drops it takes to change the solution from blue to orange).....so does that equate to 5 degrees of general hardness, or 89 ppm? Which is actually soft, is it not?
<The JBL carbonate hardness test kit is the green/yellow one. The JBL general hardness test kit is the reddish-brown one. Remember, general and carbonate hardness are complementary things. You cannot simply convert one into the other. You can, in theory, have water with high carbonate hardness and low general hardness, or vice versa. A carbonate hardness of 5 degrees KH is not a particularly high level of carbonate hardness, but without knowing the general hardness as well, it's impossible to say if the water is "soft" or "hard". If for example you lived in Southern England, chances would be good you have hard, alkaline water -- in other words, you'd have a general hardness between 15-20 degrees dH, and a carbonate hardness between 5-10 degrees KH. Such water typically has a pH of about 7.5 to 8.5, depending on the carbonate hardness more than anything else.>
Assuming I've understood it correctly, I seem to have soft, slightly alkaline water. Now I'm really confused, I thought high pH and hard water went hand in hand.
<Not at all. Bleach has a high pH but no hardness at all. Yes, water with a high carbonate hardness ("alkalinity") does indeed usually have a high pH, usually around 8, give or take a bit. But general hardness effects pH much less so, so you have high general hardness with a low carbonate hardness, and end up with a weakly basic pH, say 7.2 to 7.5.>
But in any event, soft water appears to be more unstable and more likely to suffer broad fluctuations in pH.
<Yes, but I don't think that's what you have here. In any event, 5 degrees KH should inhibit pH changes extremely well.>
I have no idea what to do with that information now......does it affect any of the existing community fish, any part of my regular maintenance routine, or scupper my plan to have a couple of Bolivian Rams?
<If your general hardness is 10 degrees dH, and your carbonate hardness is 5 degrees dH, you should be able to have a good mix of fish including Bolivian Rams, hard water tolerant tetras like X-Ray Tetras, Corydoras catfish, Cherry Shrimps, and even some of the less fussy livebearers such as Platies.>
Ta v much
Susie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: water hardness and high pH - 3/22/11
Hi Neale,
<Susie,>
Ok, thanks, I'm getting there now on my understanding of carbonate hardness and general hardness. Perhaps best thing to do would be to take a sample to MA and get them to do a definitive test on pH and water hardness, so I know for sure.
<Cool.>
Whilst my mini-cycle was extremely short-lived and nitrite went back to zero after 2 water changes, I also thought you might be interested to know that I have moved out the last of the Loaches (de-planting the whole tank in the process of catching them, again) and all of the Gouramis. The weak panda Corydoras appeared to spring to life within hours of the loaches being gone, and was feeding voraciously on anything he could get his barbels on and then whizzing around the tank with the others. Let's hope he's now properly on the road to recovery.
<Interesting. Corydoras are easily bullied, and a singleton even more so.>
I also have some new residents. I know I know, I was supposed to hold off for a few weeks, but a pair of Bolivian Rams appeared at my local MA branch! I saw them last weekend but resisted until I'd removed the other stock as you recommended, then I just had to reserve them......there were none at any of the other branches, and none expected in either.
I picked them up on Sunday and they've been settling in.....what very beautiful, captivating fish they are, I am instantly smitten. They're very shy, I don't see much of them at the moment! Hopefully they'll settle in in time and grow bolder - there is plenty of plant cover, I have bogwood breaking up portions of the tank, and they have been creeping out for food. They are wary of the bossy Ancistrus, but unfazed by the Corydoras fluttering all over them.
<They will settle down. These fish are quite outgoing in a happy tank.>
I gather that they are difficult to sex, the LFS suspected that they are both males. From the little I've seen, they are more or less similar in size (2.5 inches) and appearance and colouring, although one definitely has a more intensely yellow chest/shoulders than the other. They have been doing some very mild chasing, but no lip-locking, and they have been seen to cruise the tank and feed as a pair. I'll have to observe them for a few more days/weeks and see what transpires. Once they are bolder I'll try to get pics!
<As always with cichlids, look at the spawning tube, also called the genital papilla. This is the thing that sticks out just ahead of the anal fin, close to the anus. In males it is often visible even when not spawning, and looks like a sharp pointed tip. On females it is sometimes not visible, but when it is, it looks blunter, thicker and more rounded at the end. As you'd expect, one is for squirting out a jet of sperm, and the other for squeezing out eggs one at a time.>
That's all, really.......thanks for all the help you've provided, invaluable as always. Any hints and tips for the Rams appreciated, you know me, always learning..
Susie
<Glad to help, Neale.>

soft water with high pH?   2/27/11
Hello,
I live in San Francisco and I'm setting up a tank for Fire Red shrimp, the selectively bred red cherry shrimp. My problem is that the pH of my tanks (and tap) is 8.6-8.8, although the kH and GH are 3 and 4 degrees... it could be the other way around as I'm not at home to check... but it was soft. I've read that pH does not matter as much as kH and GH, is this true?
What would you recommend I do? Thanks!
*Lenee*
<Hello Lenee. The problem is that pH is a measure of how acidic or basic the water is, rather than a test of water hardness. So while hard water tends to be basic, while soft water tends to be acidic, there are indeed exceptions. Ammonia, for example, will raise pH, even though it isn't adding anything to either general or carbonate hardness. As a rule, if your fish and/or shrimps look happy, and the pH itself is stable between water changes, and the water quality is good, I would not worry too much. Get some Cherry Shrimps or Fire Shrimps, leave them in the tank, and see what happens! Cheers, Neale.> 

Question about water hardness 2/11/11
Hi, I am trying to experiment with soft water. My tap water comes out with a pH of 7.8, GH of 6 and KH of 6/7.
<Pretty good for a broad mix of community tank species.>
Right now in my experiment tank, I have six neon tetras, and I have been changing 10% of the water daily with RO water until I got the GH and KH down to 3. The neon tetras seem to all be doing fine, and I am wondering mainly, how sharp of a decrease in hardness is bad for fish?
<In general, you want to avoid big changes, but precisely what "big" actually means is hard to say. A good approach is simply to do small water changes, perhaps 10-20% just like you've done, wait a day or two to see how the fish react, and if they look happy and the pH is stable at some expected value, do the same thing again. In real terms fish will have different tolerances depending on their species. A brackish water fish or a desert pool fish will have far greater tolerance for change than one that comes from a Rift Valley lake or the open sea.>
I know it would be ideal to let fish adapt to local water conditions, but I have noticed some of my softer water fish tend to be more prone to illness and disease than my hard water fish when they are all kept in hard water.
<Yes, soft water tends to have fewer bacteria in it than hard water -- including filter bacteria as it happens -- and so fish that evolved for soft water conditions often have weaker immune systems than you'd hope.
Wild-caught Discus are the classic examples of this.>
Also, is it true that some fish need soft water?
<Absolutely! But most will do okay in moderately hard water up to around 10 degrees dH, pH 7.5. That includes most of the common tetras such as Neons, X-ray Tetras, Glowlight tetras and so on.>
I talked to a licorice Gourami breeder who claimed that their gouramis died off once the hardness reached about 4-5.
<Liquorice Gouramis are among the select group of fish that ABSOLUTELY MUST have soft water and a low pH to stay healthy. Others include the Common Ram Cichlid (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi), the Pikehead, the Chocolate Gourami, and halfbeaks in the genus Hemirhamphodon.>
I tried to keep them myself in water that was at 6/7 and a few died off quickly, and the rest just got sickly and stressed and died in about two weeks. Do you guys think this was just a coincidence?
<Nope, it's entirely predictable. In hard water, your best gouramis are either Trichogaster species like Moonlight and Pearl Gouramis, or the hardy Colisa species Colisa fasciata and Colisa labiosa. All the other Gouramis, include Dwarf and Honey Gouramis, are challenging species in various ways, including a need for soft water.>
Thanks for your help, you guys have the best advice!
-Tyler
<Glad to help. Cheers, Neale.>

moving, FW, water quality/softened use  1/7/11
Hi gang,
I have some questions regarding moving. We are moving about 40 minutes away. I have had my 40 gallon tank set up for a couple years. My tank contains couple Corys, a gold Gourami, Opaline Gourami, some brilliant Rasboras, a Hillstream loach and a 4 inch black ghost .
<This last isn't two years old I hope/trust>
I use tap water with Prime for the chlorine and Chloramine. Where I am moving to they use water softeners
<Mmm, skip this water and get yours from outside... will need to be warmed somehow... but you don't want the extra sodium from the salt regeneration of the soft>
and when my dad was living in that area he always used bottled water in his aquarium. They never drank the water there as years ago there was a Burmite plant that some chemicals leach into the water supply but that's been along time ago. Though my fish has been brought up in treated tap water can I use bottled water straight off the bat?
<Mmm, depends on "what's in" the bottled water. These are highly variable.
But for the fishes you list... you really should be able to use the (outdoors) tap>
If so should I use drinking or distilled?
<The drinking, never the distilled>
My plans for moving is to drain most of the water leaving just enough for the Corys and the hill stream loach(hopefully the couple of guys that are helping can carry the tank, they are high school varsity football
players).and bagging the other fish in plastic bag and putting them in Styrofoam igloos. I am almost thinking of putting the black ghost in a separate igloo with some old aquarium water.
How many flaws do you see in my plans?
<None thus far, but please read over my MO here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/movingaq.htm
and the linked files above>
The tank is acrylic hope its ok to move a tank with a bit of water and gravel. Or when I move do I need to put 100 percent of new water. I am thinking about the beneficial bacteria.
<You can leave the gravel and some water (just to keep moist) in the tank>
My filter is an Emperor 400 with the two bio wheels. Can those be submerge red or do that have to spin?
<Can>
or if I put it in the igloo I would imagine it would float and free spin.
<Not a problem>
Would love to have input from one of the awesome WWM crew members. And any other suggestions or input for a successful move.
Thanks
Joe
<Joe, do get a copy of your water analysis (from the co. on your water bill)... and send along the pertinent make-up. IF the water is safe for potable purposes, it will be fine (once warmed, dechloraminated) for the
fish species you list. Bob Fenner>
Re: moving, FW, water issues   1/7/11
Hello thanks for the reply. I got a read out of the water report the......
ph...........................in units. "typical reading" is 7.45 with lows of 7.26 and high of 7.63.
hardness as CaCO3 in mg/L "typical reading". is 407 with lows of 228 and high of 457
Alkalinity as CaCO3 in mg/L "typical reading" is 314 with lows of 291 and high of 344
Nitrate (as NO3 ) in mg/L "typical reading" is 21 with lows of 12 and high of 32
<Wow... hard water... and the Nitrate coming out of the tap this high! I would definitely look into, get and use an RO device for your potable (drinking, cooking) purposes, and mix some (likely about half) of this in
with your tap for petfish uses>
not sure if couple of these are pertinent so I forward it and not sure what else would be considered pertinent as there is a whole page list of info and didn't know how to send the entire thing.
<No worries. This snapshot/glimpse gives me good enough background to urge you as above>
Another question I forgot to ask, and have already moved it is a male Betta of my moms into my tank. then I read be cautious of cichlids and Gourami everything else said compatible on the chart except didn't have anything on the black ghost compatible with the Betta.
<Can be problematical if the Knifefish gets hungry, is large... but your 4 inch specimen is likely fine>
Do I need to worry about the gouramis attacking the Betta
<Can be trouble in some cases, but if there's room, not so much likelihood>
or vice versa and same with my ram cichlid
<Rams like much warmer, softer and more acidic water than the other fishes you list. You'd do well to maintain them in a separate system, giving them what they need. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/rams.htm
and the linked files above, esp. re Systems>
if a problem which would be the aggressor. And then again the black ghost will there be a problem and if so which is aggressor I can only imagine on that one.
Thanks again
take care
Joe
<And you, BobF>
Re: moving  1/7/11
LOL my mistake my black ghost is 9 inches.
<Ahh! You'll recall my statement re its size for age>
Sorry bad typing fingers and I didn't catch it in my re-read. And I guess the Betta is full size. Last reply on this thread for my ... I promise :-)
Joe
<No worries. BobF>

Tank move (Bob, comments on glass tanks; Culligan filters?)<<>>
Hi Neale,
<Phill,>
Been a while since I last wrote you. My tank has been amazing and thriving (or as thriving as you get in Western Illinois bedrock water). As previously discussed I am somewhat over stocked (not yet over stocked but will be once they grow out) but will be upgrading within the next year. I was going to upgrade to a 75 gallon from my 55 for the larger footprint.
However I saw a posting online for custom aquarium builds. What is your impression of the 70 wide (48" x 24" x 13")? Is that too shallow for the Severum or Angelfish?
<Both these species need a good 30 cm/12" of water depth to be truly happy, though farmed Angels rarely get particularly large so they're marginally less fussy, and should be okay in, say, 25 cm/10" of water. You might find longer, shallower cichlids better bets, such as the Acaras or perhaps something from Lake Tanganyika more doable. For example, Julidochromis ornatus, like most of the Julidochromis, do just fine in hard water community tanks. They're predatory, yes, so will eat anything too small, but otherwise tend to stick close to the substrate and don't harass fish too big to be eaten. Conversely, they're large enough to be worthwhile personality fish.>
They would be the tallest fish I have and the rest I am not worried about.
<A good approach is to divide a tank into three layers: the surface inch or two, the bottom inch or two, and then everything in between. Choose fish species to occupy each layer without overlapping the others. I'd further recommend two "inches" of fish at the middle for every inch at the surface and inch at the bottom. In other words, for every Danio at the top and Corydoras at the bottom, have two middle water fish such as Diamond Tetras.
This way the fish don't look like a jumble, their territorial behaviours don't interfere with each other, and the aquarium looks busy at each level rather than crowded at just one level.>
Also I typically build my own furniture. Any real concerns for a 48" x 24" glass bottom that large in terms of support under it? The builder gives the option for tempered glass; good idea?
<I'm going to ask Bob about this. I personally don't recommend people build their own tanks because of the effort and risks involved. By my reckoning, a good value off-the-shelf tank is generally more cost-effective.>
Also I was going to move to a Culligan water filter on the main line in the house. This would be a move from my current water at pH 8.0 and hardness of over 300 ppm. Obviously I ran a risk with the fish I have but have done better research since and mine appear to be doing well. Would the filter be a huge issue since they are now acclimated to hard water?
<Again, I'd like Bob to chime in here. I don't know Culligan filters at all. But let me just make three points. Firstly, filters that simply use carbon to remove impurities are fine, and the resulting water *can* be used
in aquaria. On the other hand, filters that use salt to "soften" water don't so much soften the water as replace carbonate hardness with sodium salts, and the water they produce *should not* be used in aquaria. Finally, RO filters make near-100% pure water, and this *can* be used in aquaria, provided suitable salt mixes are added afterwards, either Discus Salts in the case of soft water communities, or Rift Valley Salts for moderately hard to hard water communities. As a very broad rule, wise fishkeepers
choose fish adapted to their unsoftened, untreated tap water, and then merely use water conditioner to remove chlorine, Chloramine and ammonia. Only aquarists that FULLY understand water chemistry should EVER mess around with water chemistry.>
If I do go with the water softener I was entertaining the idea of Apistos again. Just can't seem to forget about them haha.
<Do please understand that most domestic water softeners replace carbonate hardness with sodium salts. If the Culligan filter uses salt rather than an RO membrane, what it's producing will STILL have high general hardness, but instead of carbonate hardness to buffer against pH changes, it now has sodium salts in the water. This is NOTHING LIKE the water in the Amazon, and should not be used for keeping soft water cichlids.>
Obviously my glaring concern would be the Blue Acara and my 2 Striped Raphael Cats. Any thoughts on that?
<Both are adaptable, though questionable companions for Apistogramma given their size and in the case of Acara their temperament.>
Thanks in advance for your support Neale. I'll be sure to send you pics of the new tank once it's up and grown out. Hoping my plants will thrive if I get that softener.
<Again, let me please stress that domestic water softeners do not produce soft water. All they do is remove the stuff that forms limescale. Only an RO filter removes general hardness. That's why people who need soft water use either rainwater or RO filters.>
Phill
<Cheers, Neale.><<Most residential "Culligan" water filtration/softener units are salt-recharged resins... and sources of sodium as Neale states. http://www.culligan.com/en/products/  BobF>>
Re: Tank move (Bob, comments on glass tanks; Culligan filters?)   12/29/10
Thanks Neale. Culligan does in fact use salt so that will not be an option.
<Indeed.>
I just wanted to clarify with the furniture build. I built the stand on my 55 myself. It is plum level and very sturdy. It was built using 4x4's and 3/4" particle board and molding stained almond. I was thinking the same thing for the larger tank. What I had found was a website that lists various tank sizes that they commonly build. I was just curious if the 70 wide could be ok with standard stand support since it is 24" wide instead of 13" like the 55 gallon. And I believe that the bottom panel of glass in a 55 is tempered so do you think the 70 wide bottom would also require that?
<As I said, that's something for Bob to comment on, so I'd e-mail him via WWM separately. I know little about DIY aquarium furniture and never recommend it.>
A standard 75 at 48"x18" would probably work fine but I thought it would be a good investment to get the extra 6". It costs $282 and I can typically find $1/gallon sales at my local LFS so I could get a good 75 for $75 so you are correct about the price difference.
<I see.>
I guess the real question is that I know cichlids like ample territory.
<Yes, but surface area is typically the key, rather than volume. A lot depends on the cichlids you're after, but dwarf species will typically claim a patch of area at least 15 cm/6 inches radius around their cave or
nesting site, and larger species proportionally more. Rock-dwellers can be somewhat different, particularly if there is a big, tall mound of complex rockwork along the back of the tank. On the other hand, overcrowding some cichlids works well because it prevents any fish claiming a territory, though the debit site of the equation is the resulting instability of water quality and water chemistry. Do read Mary Bailey's piece, as an example on how this can work:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_2/malawian_cichlids.htm
>
Thus do you think the 70 wide is worth the price and do you think it is a solid tank? Thanks Neale.
<Certainly 70 gallons is better than 55 gallons, but the difference may not be that significant in real terms. Compare the cost of scaling up to 100 gallons and act accordingly.>
Phill
<Cheers, Neale.>

pH and KH query (re. goldfish) - FAO Neale if possible, thanks! 11/18/2010
Dear Crew,
I have a question which I hope you can help me out with. I've recently been getting to grips with the complexities of pH and KH for my goldfish, thanks to the helpful articles on your site. However, I've run into a problem which I haven't been able to solve by reading. The tank pH is presently 7.6-7.8 and the KH is approximately 5 (raised from very soft, acidic city water over the past few months) and my problem is that the KH is still too low. From my reading, I understand that it should be around 6-7. However, raising the KH any further with the Malawi salts I've been using will also raise the pH again (and it's already borderline too high). I've read a lot on WWM, but while I've found a great deal on lowering pH, it's usually to achieve a pH of around 6 (which is of course too low for goldfish). How can I raise the KH while fixing the pH at 7.5 or thereabouts?
I'd really appreciate any advice from you, and thank you very much in advance for your time. I know you get this a lot, but WWM is my Bible!
Best wishes,
Sarah
<Hello Sarah, and thanks for the kind words. The Malawi salt mix can be tweaked up and down as required. Reduce the Epsom salt to lower general hardness, and reduce the sodium bicarbonate to lower carbonate hardness.
Reduce or skip the marine salt mix to reduce both general and carbonate hardness slightly. Now, note that carbonate hardness is important primarily in how it steadies the pH. If you have a pH of 7.6-7.8, and it stays there from one week to the next, then there's no need to raise the carbonate hardness further. In an aquarium, you can't easily raise pH without raising carbonate hardness. Furthermore, there's a complex relationship between pH, carbonate hardness, and carbon dioxide concentration. So pinning down
precise values is tricky. Instead, just go by the "feel" of the thing -- if the pH is steady between 7.5 and 8, and the carbonate hardness is within the tolerances of the species being kept, then you've created the hard, basic water conditions goldfish, livebearers and other fish like these enjoy! Cheers, Neale.>
Re: pH and KH query (re. goldfish) - FAO Neale if possible,  11/18/2010
thanks!
Dear Neale,
Thank you very much for your quick reply; it's much appreciated. It sounds as if it'd be best to keep things stable, then; pH and KH are both within acceptable limits, and I've finally achieved pH stability with water
changes, so it's all good. As it happens, I buy pre-mixed Malawi salts at present (taking heed of the note in the WWM article that beginners should avoid mixing their own at first) - however, I'll save your email for future reference as that's very handy.
Many thanks again for your help, and enjoy your weekend!
Sarah
<Glad to help, Sarah. Yes: provided the pH is stable, you don't need to worry about the precise carbonate hardness, assuming the water is broadly within the tolerances of the fish being kept. Have a good weekend yourself, Neale.>

Goldfish care advice please 10/4/10
Dear Crew,
<Greetings,>
I hope you'll extend your usual kindness and patience to an unusually idiotic reader today.
<Will try my best!>
The back-story: I completely neglected to attend to the KH needs of my goldfish, having wrongly believed that a pH of 7.5 meant that the KH was right too (horrible wrong assumption). I recently found that the tank KH was 2.5, obviously appalling, and am gradually raising it with Malawi salts. It's up to 4.2 now and I'm making very gradual changes, given how long these conditions have been in place.
<Good. Yes, KH is a commonly overlooked aspect of fishkeeping. If you live somewhere with hard water coming out of a chalk aquifer, as is the case across London and Southern England, you never need worry about KH in your life. But if your water is soft, or else has high general hardness but low carbonate hardness, then you can find pH drops substantially lot between water changes. With all this said, Goldfish aren't particularly fussy about KH, and provided the pH stays stable, ideally around 7.5, you're fine.>
I want to make sure that I'm not inadvertently neglecting any other aspects of my fishes' care, and was hoping you might check this for me. Finrot has been a recurring concern of late, and while I suspect this is probably KH-related, I just want to be sure that I'm not ignorantly harming my fish in any other way.
<KH itself is unlikely to cause sickness. Why KH matters is almost entirely down to pH stability. KH is the "carbonate reserve" that neutralises the acids formed between water changes. The higher the KH, the less pH drops between water changes.>
I regularly test for pH (7.5), ammonia (0), nitrate (<5mg/l), nitrite (0) and now KH as well (which I believe should end up around 10 degrees when I'm finished, is that right?).
<That's a bit high, though Goldfish won't mind it. Certainly should be at least 5 degrees KH otherwise you'll find pH drops noticeably. If you have soft water, a 25-50% dose of the Rift Valley salt mix should do the trick nicely. I'd use the 25% dose, then see how things go. If the pH stays fairly steady, then you're fine sticking at that dosage.>
I have one four-inch goldfish in a 26 UK gallon tank, and two others (around two inches or a little less) in a 28 gallon tank. Both are maintained at 18-20 degrees C, both have filtration for 8x the tank volume.
<OK.>
I always use dechlorinator when changing water. I feed small amounts of peas and spirulina flakes (gone within seconds of feeding), and have some elodea which is destined for their tanks post-quarantine.
<Excellent.>
If there are any glaring concerns in the above, I'd really appreciate it if you would point them out.
<All sounds promising.>
Thank you very much for your time, and I hope you don't mind helping me.
Kind regards,
Sarah
<Glad to help. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Goldfish care advice please 10/4/10
Dear Neale,
Many thanks for your assistance; you've helped to set my mind at ease. I really appreciate your time and advice. Enjoy the rest of your evening!
Best wishes,
Sarah
<Glad to help. Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Salt and heat treatment of Ich... Now water hardness, measures      7/11/10
Great, my main 52 gal has 11 GH (or moderately hard per test kit),
<Do you mean 11 degrees dH?>
KH associated with a low ph (40 mg/L),
<No, you misunderstand the test kit. KH isn't "associated" with pH; what carbonate hardness does is buffer pH, i.e., keep it stable, normally in the basic range, between 7 and 8.5 depending on the amount, which is what you
measure in KH units. The higher the KH, the more stable a basic pH will be.
40 mg/l is about 2 degrees KH, which is quite low, so pH isn't going to be stable. In other words, depending on how much acidification is going on in your aquarium, pH will likely drop between water changes.>
and a PH of 7.4. However, my temp runs around 80 due to the light I leave on during the day for my live plants. I know Loach fish like subdued lighting but they have plenty of shade from dense plants and hid holes. I cant seem to get my temp lower.
<Then choose fish that tolerate such warm conditions. Chronic overheating will dramatically shorten the lives of low-end tropical and subtropical fish: Corydoras, Neons, Platies, etc. all need relatively cool conditions.>
My second tank, 29 gal, is just for an Angelfish and is at PH 7, GH 7 (a little high, however I have had her for 3 years and she seems ok), KH same as above.
<Perfect conditions for Angels, assuming you can keep the pH stable.>
My treated tap water runs at around PH of 7, GH of 2.24,
<2.24 what? 2.24 degrees dH general hardness is far more accurate what your test kit could measure. If instead you measured a general hardness of 224 mg/l, well, that's fairly hard water.>
and KH same as above. How I got my Angelfish tank and my 52 gal at a higher GH then the original tap, I have no idea, maybe the sand substrate I used?
<Depends on what the sand is made from.>
So, when I set up my new 90 Gallon (HA HA, already got approval), which I would like to be for the clowns, and probably only them. I only plan on having three, hope this is big enough for three, and maybe a few small fish. What do you recommend I use to get this tank at the optimal range in PH and GH?
<I don't. I recommend you choose fish that will be happy in your tap water's pH, general hardness and carbonate hardness.>
Obviously, my tap GH is too low for them, as is, so I would need to bump it up a little without raising the PH. Again, buffering or KH in both tanks is ideal for low ph, per test kit. This gets confusing.
<It's only confusing if you [a] don't understand the units and [b] don't understand what you're testing. Test your tap water, write down the units, then write back to me with those results. I'll then be able to help you understand what your water chemistry is. From there you can choose the right fish for the water chemistry and temperature. In the meantime, read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestk.htm
>
I am amazed I have not killed any fish, only those few in initial quarantine, due to travel stress, Ich, and secondary bacterial infection from Ich. I am sorry to bother you again, and I so much appreciate your help. Happy fish keeping. Lu
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Salt and heat treatment of Ich 7/13/10
Neale,
Thanks so much for your patience.
<Happy to help.>
This time I wrote everything down carefully! I am reading articles next. Also, I do water changes once a week 20%. I will work on decreasing temp.
<Cool.>
Ok here are the results, drum roll please...
TAP: PH: 7
GH: (# drops x 20) = 60 x 0.056 = 3.36 dh
<3 to 4 degrees dH general hardness is very low.>
KH (# drops x 10 (buffer) = 40 mg/L
<Again, this is very low, about 2 and a bit degrees KH. Do note that "KH" is the units, from the German word "Karbonathärte">
52 gal planted:
PH 7.4
GH: 180 x 0.056 = 10.08 dh, different then yesterday, must of gotten numbers jumbled in head.
<Moderately hard.>
KH: same as above
So this is not good for the swordtail, huh? Site I bought fish from says Platy hardness range 10-25, swordtail 12-30
<Indeed. Both Platies and Swordtails need moderately hard to hard, basic water.>
29 gal (with angel)
PH: 7.0
GH: 140 x 0.056 = 7.84 dh
<Slightly on the soft side.>
KH: same as above
Since my KH is low (buffer) do you recommend I buffer my tap?
<If you intend to keep livebearers, then yes. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
It's all there: what the numbers mean, what certain fish want, how to create those conditions.>
I treat in a 20 gal garbage can with prime. If I have to get the GH to 11 in 52 gal, so I can put the swordtail in it, what do you recommend? When clowns are big enough to be moved into 90 gal, due to 52 gal being too small, I am going to have to mess with water perimeters to make them comfortable.
<The key thing is that you buy fish suited to your water chemistry. If you have soft water with low carbonate hardness as well, then your best bet is to choose soft water fish: tetras, Rasboras, Corydoras, etc. This is why we tell people to read a book before they buy their fish, since the requirements for each fish species will be laid out fair and square.>
That stinks, and upsets me because I read the minimum gal for them was 50. I would have never gotten them had I known this was not correct.
<Hence the need for books.>
Goodness! Last, and hopefully least, this is the worse quarantine I have ever experienced..I have treated the swords and platys in the salt/heat solution for a week, and today I noticed one sword flashing/scratching. I see no signs of Ich, fungus, or bacteria, and I lost another platy which had heavy breathing and red gills.
<Likely a water chemistry issue.>
Today, I changed water and added back the appropriate amount of salt.
<Tonic salt doesn't raise hardness, carbonate hardness, or pH. Marine salt mix will, used in sufficient quantity, but it will stress non-brackish water species used that way. Do read the article linked to above.>
I haven't a clue what to do next. Should I put Melafix and Pimafix in with this salt solution.
<Why?>
I have no idea what I am treating cause I see nothing on fish. The 14 gal quarantine PH is 7.8. GH 6.72 dh (low for them I now know) and KH 70 mg/L, higher because I have a small amount of coral in this to buffer, since I knew my KH was low, and was worried about ph fluctuation in the smaller volume of water. No ammonia no nitrites. There are three Hi Fin Blood Red swords and two very small platy in this quarantine.
<Read. You need hard, basic, alkaline water for Platies and Swordtails. Provide those conditions, and they should do well. If you aim for about 10 degrees dH, 5-6 degrees KH, and a pH around 7.5, you should find livebearers and most tetras get along fine. Use the "Rift Valley salt mix" described on the linked article, starting with just one bucket of water, tweaking the amounts of Epsom salt and baking soda up or down until you get the precise ratio you need. I'd guess about one-quarter to one-half the recommend dose for cichlids should work fine in this case.>
Oh yes, the sand I used in the 52 gal and 29 gal was given to me by LFS and was not supposed to mess with PH, I mixed it with a plant substrate in 52 gal, plants sure seem to be happy, and so do the fish. Thanks again Neale. Sincerely, Lu
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Salt and heat treatment of Ich 7/13/10
Again, thanks for the time you have taken to help me. I have great knowledge on butterfly gardens,
<Cool!>
if you ever need help there, ha. Yes, I will admit, I am guilty as charged, for getting the fish then reading and realizing there was so much more to fish keeping then just keeping the water clean and filtered.
<Much like your butterflies, no doubt, each with its own preference for flowers, places to lay eggs, temperatures, and so on.>
All they ever tell you to worry about is the PH, what a shame.
<In fact the pH is relatively unimportant. General hardness (measured in degrees dH) is really the thing to worry about first, and carbonate hardness (measured in degrees KH) is the thing that tells you how stable the pH will be. But the actual pH itself is not usually a big deal if you get those two right.>
At least in the end I have not done too bad, somehow I got both tanks good for the fish that are in it at this moment. I just have to make it better for the swords and platys now, and buffer up. The temp was even perfect, until I added the light for plants and the extra Magnum Canister filter (I also have wet/dry filter with bio balls). More filtration is better then less aye.
<Yes, but with the provisos that [a] not all fish want lots of current; and [b] driving off CO2 will slow down plant growth rates.>
This extra filter with light seemed to have boosted the temp up a few degrees. I will find a solution to this!
<Can be a problem. Floating a big litre-size chunk of ice can help, and so can encouraging evaporation by using a small fan.>
Hope you have a wonderful day. Be well. Lu
<Thank you and likewise. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Salt and heat treatment of Ich... water chem., hardness   7/13/10
Hi again, Neale,
<Hello,>
I have your recipe from site. My last question is, I know I promised before I would not ask anymore. Since my PH 52 gal 7.4, and my dh or general hardness is 10, which is good for the community I have. I am afraid if I use all the ingredients my PH will rise, and then be too high for the fish I have in the tank, such as the Cory; clown loach, leopard Pleco (max size 4 inches) these fish seem to have a maximum PH of 7.5. So should I only add the baking soda, which is the buffer,
<Sure, you can either Epsom salt or baking soda alone if you only want to change only general hardness or carbonate hardness respectively. But test it out on a bucket of tap water, and then do water changes to alter water
chemistry. DO NOT add Epsom salt or baking soda directly to the aquarium.>
since this is the main concern, that my KH is too low for stable PH. The general hardness of 10 seems ok for swords, as I have just read on the site. You are the best, and such a kind person to help us all. Lu
<Happy to help. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Salt and heat treatment of Ich... Water chem./FW DH, chatting re Corydoras repro.   7/14/10
Hi Neale,
<Hello Lu,>
Oh great, my other half mentioned adding a few small pieces of ice in the back overflow part of tank, carefully watching the temp.
<It's fine to do this, and you don't need to be paranoid about water temperature. Provided the block of ice is some small fraction of the volume of the tank, less than, say, one-twentieth, the overall water temperature change will be small. The fish will usually dart in and out of the cold, sinking water under the block of ice, and in many cases seem to very much enjoy the sensation. Danios and Corydoras are two fish types that enjoy this sort of thing.>
Too funny. Yes, on the current and species issue. Cool, so glad about the hardness recipe, can't wait to play the weird scientist and mess with this in a five gallon bucket. I promise, I sure won't add to tank directly.
<Excellent. It is fun, and once you've made a recipe that works, you're set for life.>
I don't know if you have ever experienced this, but I thought it was so neat. My Cory cats are mating, and the females clean the glass, carry the eggs between their bottom fins, and place the eggs on the walls of tank, and the plants. I was blown away, so darn cute.
<It is very cute, and yes, I have bred Corydoras. Some notes and photos here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/coryreproart.htm
One of the great mysteries is how the sperm and eggs get together. Males shed their sperm in front of the female, but how she gets the sperm to the eggs is unknown, though one theory is she swallows the sperm, passes it quickly along her gut, and then sheds the sperm onto the clutch of eggs in her pelvic fins a few at a time. Pretty weird, I think you'll agree.
Corydoras catfish are among the most interesting fish hobbyists can keep, and yet so undemanding.>
Of course, after all that hard work, they eat them later, what a hoot.
<Do try rolling the eggs off the glass into a breeding trap. The fry are very easy to rear, by the standards of egg-laying fish at least. I have three generations of them living in one of my community tanks by doing precisely this. Sure, I only rear a few "kittens" successfully, but that's enough if you're just doing it for fun.>
I don't mind, as this keeps fish population down. I feel bad for two of the Cory cats because even though I have provided them with fine sand, two of them have lost their whiskers, it is as though they have no lips at all, poor babies. They seem ok and still eat, they just look pathetic.
<Will soon grow back given good conditions. Technically, it's bacterial decay rather than the gravel that causes erosion of the whiskers. It's just that gravel tends to be dirtier than sand -- contrary to what you'd expect -- and the decaying organic matter on gravel coupled with physical damage to the whiskers means the whiskers erode rather than heal normally.>
Indeed, you are so correct about the butterflies. Again, Neale, it is such a pleasure to email with you, thanks so much and as always happy fish keeping. Be well. Lu
<Good to talk. Have fun! Neale.>

Buffering RO with decor.   6/22/10
Hi guys (Neale?)
<Yep!>
I didn't get a response to my last email a week ago perhaps due to my poor grammar or am I being impatient?
<Funnily enough, yesterday someone else mentioned -- actually, complained loudly! -- the lack of response. Possibly more than one message didn't arrive?>
Electronics is my subject so I hope you can excuse my below average English skills.
<Will do my best.>
I recently asked some questions about hard plumbing a 570 liter fresh water divider tank with a canister filter and it's now complete and just starting to cycle.
<Cool. Nice size tank, by the way; for our US readers, about 150 of their Earth gallons.>
The problem is the local water quality here is pretty dire so I have invested in an RO filter which actually worked out cheaper both initially and long term than a DI filter.
<Can well be, though does depend on your usage. In your case yes, an RO filter may well pay for itself. If you only have a small aquarium, rainwater can often be collected adequately well to supply your needs.
That's what I do, and mixed 50/50 with tap water, is enough for about 250 litres' worth of aquaria.>
The local water we have (Jersey Channel Islands) peaks at over 70 Nitrate with a very high TDS content and contains low levels of Ammonia straight from the tap.
<I see. Again, not a killer, but I can see how you'd want to avoid processing this into aquarium water.>
I am using the RO water straight at this stage (no fish yet) which is still at 10 ppm TDS after filtering.
<Do make sure the RO filter is operating properly. Among other things, you tend to need at least one carbon pre-filter and often more than one RO filter canister. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i4/RO_systems/reverse_osmosis.htm
>
Then I am adding Microbe-Lift R/O Water Conditioner to replace missing elements.
<OK, but in and of itself this may not be adequate for the fish you're keeping. Do research the fish you want to keep, and add minerals accordingly. For a general mixed community of tropical fish, the ideal water chemistry is about 10 degrees dH general hardness, and a pH between 7 and 7.5. I'd recommend using the Rift Valley salt mix, at perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 the stated dose. Tweak the proportions a little if you need to: the Epsom salt raises the general hardness, while the sodium bicarbonate raises the carbonate hardness and therefore the pH. The marine salt mix adds a little of both, plus some other minerals of importance to your fish. Use your test kits, and once you get the hardness and pH you want, make a note of what proportions of each you used, and bingo, you'll have very cheap, very effective buffering chemicals.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsoftness.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
>
For decoration I was hoping to use the dead rock (coral) which is available from my LFS. Will using this rock in the fresh water system as well as the above conditioner effectively buffer the water?
<Yes it can, to a degree, but I'd recommend against it. For one thing, using coral this way is unpredictable, and the rate at which it adjusts the pH will vary with time. The more algae and bacteria on the rock, the less effectively it can dissolve. Plus, it has a time-delayed effect on new water you add, so there will always be water chemistry variations when you do water changes.>
I'm hoping that if the pH tries to drop the decorative rock will buffer the water to prevent any drastic fluctuation.
<Yes and no.>
Is this a realistic expectation?
<Not really. If you need hard water, it's much better to incorporate a small bag of crushed coral in the canister filter, adjusting the amount up or down as required. It's very difficult to say how much you need.>
I don't really want to mix RO and tap water as even from a brand new filter Nitrate is already 10.
<For most community fish, this really isn't an issue. Provided nitrate is less than 50, you're fine, and below 20 will suit "sensitive" fish like dwarf cichlids.>
The only information I have found regarding using coral as a fresh water buffer on the net and various other sources is that it may make the water slightly cloudy?
<Can do, but that's purely the effect of silt on coral sand/rubble that wasn't cleaned. On the other hand, varying water chemistry favours diatom blooms.>
Water changes will be 25 liters/5% a week with RO and added conditioner. I was hoping changing this small amount would not effect the tank pH too much and give the coral time to buffer the added water? After previous advice you have provided we were looking at keeping Gourami's and Rainbows.
<Indeed, and neither of these needs particularly soft water; most rainbows actually want moderately hard, around neutral water. Hardy gouramis -- Moonlights, Pearls, Three-spots, Thick-lipped, and Banded -- will be fine either way. As ever, avoid Dwarf and Honey gouramis.>
Thanks in advance and best regards
Ben
<Cheers, Neale.> 
Re: Buffering RO with decor.
Hi Neale,
<Ben,>
Thanks again for your fantastic advice. The RO filter is a good quality 3 stage and I have had similar (actually worse) results using another RO filter when I was considering making artificial sea water for my marine system.
<I see.>
Is 10ppm really too high?
<10 ppm what? Nitrate? Calcium carbonate? Calcium oxide? Just to set your mind at ease, in all three cases the answer would be "not too high at all" and in fact in terms of calcium oxide/carbonate very low indeed.>
pH of the RO water is 7 by the way.
<Rainbowfish will do fine at this, provided any drift is upwards, not down; on the whole, the common Rainbowfish species dislike acidic water, though there's some variation.>
Unfortunately I now have a slight problem... The original email you didn't receive was written a week ago and the one you received today was mainly a cut and paste. Unfortunately I have already progressed (in this case not a good thing) and added the Coral.
<Oh.>
No problem just remove it right?
<None. The rate at which it dissolves is very slow -- it's limestone after all -- and the impact a single chunk of coral has on aquarium chemistry is relatively small. Naturally, the more acidic the water, the faster the lime dissolves. But I can't imagine this being a big deal.>
Well the condensation lids and frame work have now been fitted around the tank very permanently. The problem is the biggest piece is too big to remove without hacking it to pieces.
<Oh dear.>
This is possible but I'm worried about scratching the tank in the process.
<Yes, certainly can happen, though limestone is softer than glass, and less likely to scratch glass than, say, silica sand.>
Could I just use the Epsom salts to increase the general hardness and use less Sodium Bicarbonate and marine salt to try and get the balance?
<Certainly. But bear in mind that with the coral in there, the pH is unlikely do drop below pH 7.5, since when it does become acidic, the coral will react at a rate proportional to the surface area of coral exposed to the water. If you're keeping hard water fish, then that's fine.
Rainbowfish, livebearers, wrestling halfbeaks, etc. will all thrive in such conditions. Hardy gouramis should tolerate such conditions, too.>
The pH is currently at 7.8 but the tank is still at the Nitrite stage so I don't know if this result is meaningful yet. I will take a hardness test once I locate my test kit which has temporarily gone MIA. I will break and remove the Coral if necessary. I wish I'd been more patient but had almost given up on getting a reply :-(
<Ah, well, these things happen. Do try and understand what coral does, and what the limits are. Surface area dictates dissolution rate, which is why pulverised coral rubble works better than big chunks. pH further determines dissolution rate, and above about pH 8, dissolution rate is practically nil, while acidification below 7.5 will speed up dissolution, cancelling out any attempts to lower the pH -- probably not an issue here, but worth understanding should you decide to keep soft water fish such as tetras.
Over time algae and bacteria cover coral and coral rubble, acting like a layer of insulation, slowing down dissolution further. If the coral or coral rubble aren't cleaned, there's the potential for acidification of the aquarium to proceed faster than the coral dissolves, leading to pH drops.
This can, does happen in neglected hard water tanks where you can find below-6 pH levels despite the use of coral or limestone.>
Many thanks
Ben
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Buffering RO with decor.
Thanks Neale
<Hello Ben,>
I will endeavor to keep the tank and Coral spotlessly clean and avoid soft water fish. The wrestling halfbeaks look very interesting and are not something I've come across before.
<They are indeed very interesting, and among my personal favourites.
http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/Projects/Halfbeaks/halfbeaks.html
>
I will promptly and happily make a donation to Wet web media although I believe the information you guys give on this site is ultimately priceless.
<Nice of you to say so.>
I have received great guidance on several occasions now and only wish I could return the favor.
Kindest regards
Ben
<Glad to help! Cheers, Neale.>

Temperature and hardness - 6/6/10
Hi Neale
<Patrick,>
Thank you so much!
<My pleasure.>
Regarding temperature and water hardness though, both tanks are currently around 80F (27C) due to the hot weather and drop over a couple of days to about 25C. Is this ok for a tank of guppies, tetras, Platies and shrimps?
<Set the heater down to about 23 C. Summer time rises are fine. But at night it'll cool down, and outside of summer the temperature will be much healthier.>
I am leaving the lid open to cool the water and the heater is off currently.
<Can help, but some fish jump out, so be careful.>
The water hardness GH is 180ppm (which is common throughout London UK).
<Correct.>
The carbonate hardness KH is 240ppm (pH fluctuates around 8). Is this appropriate?
<Ideal for Platies and Guppies, as well as various hard water fish. But not so much Neons. If they last a year without at least a few fatalities, I'd be surprised.>
The shop told me it is as all the fish were bred in the same type of water (London).
<Baloney. Neons are bred in extremely soft water and an acidic pH. The pet shop will tell you any old thing, really. Many are very unreliable. There are some hard water tetras, of which the best is Pristella maxillaris, sold as the X-ray tetra or Pristella tetra. But most tetras prefer/demand soft water.>
Kindest regards
Patrick
<Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Freshwater tanks, possibly poisoned 5/16/2010
Hi Neale,
<Gina,>
I thought I'd update you.
<Cool.>
This issue was caused by my water hardness not poisoning.
<Indeed?>
You know the pH thing you mentioned half a dozen times during this conversation. Yeah, that.
<I see...>
This is where you say, I told you so. :) Apparently the marine salt that I use for the mix to fix my carbonate and general hardness was compromised or old and all I had to do was purchase new salt and the issue resolved.
<How odd. Kept cool and dry, marine salt mix should stay stable for a very long time.>
Amazing how critical thinking skills go out the window when you panic.
Everything became a confirmation bias that is *was* poisoning and so why check the hardness. Gosh.
<Indeed.>
Thanks for all your help. I'm just relieved that the issue is resolved now.
<As am I.>
Gina
<Take care, Neale.>

Help ! More from "Weird water Chemistry"   3/20/10
Hi Crew
<Hello again,>
Neale helped me a couple of weeks ago with my bizarre tap water when I was cycling a 55. The tank is cycled and stable and I also have two other aquariums with similar parameters. I am doing everything I know to do and everything that has been suggested and I still have unhappy fish. I am hoping someone can look over my specs one more time and perhaps also look at my city water site and see what I am missing.
my city water site is
http://topeka.org/publicworks/water_analysis.shtml
<That's certainly rock hard water.>
My 8 week cycled 55 G has three fancy 3.5" fish in it.
<Goldfish?>
Filtered with Filstar Rena XP3 (with Nitrazorb) an Emperor 280, Top Fin 40 and a submersible water pump for surface gas exchange. I vacuum thoroughly every 4th day and top off. I use water that has been aerated for 5 days ( this drops the tap PH of 9.5 to 8.4) I keep the Ph at 8.4 in all three of my tanks. I use Rift Valley salts to keep PH and KH stable ( KH at 120) My dechlorinator is KoiRX Detox Plus. Water temp is 70.
Change water is matched in temperature and PH at 8.4.
<OK.>
The fish mostly bottom sit, motionless.
<Not a good sign.>
They wake up and are lively when I feed them. After feeding or 15-20% water change, one fish returns to bottom sitting, one exhibits swim bladder problems and one floats gulping at the surface. They all yawn excessively.
I am feeding cooked, shelled green peas and cooked spinach, occasionally with blood worms. While the tank was cycling, I fed ProGold and they looked great for a few weeks.
<OK.>
I have Nitrazorb in the 55 and this holds the nitrate at 10 (the resident amount of nitrate in my city water) between 4th day water change.
<Should be fine.>
My 20 G with two small fish exhibits the same symptoms. My 40 gallon has three comets who eat well but one floats nose down and the white one is losing the orange spot on his head. I've had this fish 3 years and just this week, the color is rapidly fading. There has been no fluctuation in PH. I do not have Nitrazorb in the 20 and 40 and Nitrates test at 20 between 4th day changes. I cannot get them lower with water changes, only Nitrazorb will lower Nitrates.
<I don't think nitrates are the issue here.>
this week I purchased a GH test and have gotten some very strange readings.
I am assuming these are false high readings. I use API test.
Change water after aeration is 10 drops, 179
40 gallon tank 16 drops before it turns green
55 gallon (running 8 weeks) 30 drops before turning green
20 gallon (running 3 years) 45 drops and still orange..... I gave up at this point.
<As would I. The point is that the water is very, very hard.>
I have diatom problems in every tank which I try to keep cleaned away. I assume because the silica is high in my tap water. I added a Phosphate/silica pillow in the 40 last week, but no improvement yet.
<Diatoms will generally do well in aquaria anyways, and only things like snails make much impact on them. If you have some fast-growing plants then their growth is slow, but even then, I still need to clean diatoms from my tanks once every couple of months.>
If anyone can see what I am missing or unaware of...what mistakes I am making.... Please help !
I work very hard to keep my lovely fish healthy and well and this city water is incredibly frustrating !
Many thanks for your time.
Amy
<Amy, my gut feeling here is you have two options. The first is to use a certain amount of RO (or rain) water to create softer water. A 50/50 mix of RO and tap water would probably create something well within the tolerances of Goldfish and indeed most community tropical fish. This is precisely how I maintain most of my fish, using rainwater, which in England at least is almost "on tap"! In the continental United States rainwater may not be so abundant, but RO water is convenient if expensive. The second option is to keep just fish adapted to these very hard water conditions. Livebearers, Goodeids, Rift Valley cichlids, Central American cichlids and (with a bit of salt) brackish water fishes would all thrive under such conditions. A tank of orange Sailfin Mollies for example would make a nice alternative to Goldfish, and there are even some very nifty Koi Swordtails on the market as well. Another thing you might do is get in touch with a local aquarium club. I don't know if there is one on Topeka, but there are certainly clubs in Wichita, KS, and in Independence, MO. Both may well have online resources such as bulletin boards or forums, and you could find out from people in your local area precisely what fish do well and which ones don't.
Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: Help ! More from "Weird water Chemistry" (RMF, any additional input?)<<>>
Neale
Thank you much for your fast reply. I have a variety of fancy Goldfish that I adore and I very much appreciate your help and thanks for hanging in there with me. Others that I have consulted simply disappear after a couple of email exchanges.
<<Mmm>>
I can purchase water at my LFS until I can get an RO installed.
<<Have just re-read your prev. posts. I would blend such water about half with your tap/source... Let "stand" for a day or more before using>
I am thinking a unit that produces 50 G a day would suffice.
<More than enough for your pet-fish and potable uses>
Is there anything I need to know before buying one?
<Mmm... some basics re storing, using... These can be searched, found on WWM>
If I use 50/50 with tap water, are there any changes that I need to make in testing or additives required that I need to be prepared for?
<<There are, but I don't think you will need any for your purposes>>
Many many thanks.
Amy
<<Welcome. BobF>>

Re: Help ! More from "Weird water Chemistry", lowering GH with RO   3/28/10
I am getting an RO this week. How fast can I lower the GH with 50/50 tap/RO water without stressing them? They are losing their color.
Many thanks !!!
A
<I wouldn't change more than 25% per week. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Discus care, sys.   3/12/10
Thank you so much for the link you supplied. It has wonderful information!
<Glad you found it useful.>
I was also wondering about the role of peat in a discus aquarium. I don't know anything about it or what it's use/purpose.
<Peat is of limited value these days, but it was widely used in the hobby through to about the late 1970s. It serves two purposes. Firstly it softens water, to a certain degree. Secondly, it adds tannic acids that lower the pH. In neither of these regards is peat predictable, which is why it isn't much used anymore. It doesn't soften water very well, so things like RO filters and rainwater are much better. As for acidifying the water, commercial pH buffers are much more useful for this. On top of all this, peat isn't minded in a very sustainable manner, and ecologists generally argue that it shouldn't be extracted at all. So in short, it's not particularly useful and isn't ecologically sound to use anyway. Cheers, Neale.>

Empire State of Mind - FW, NY tap/source water qual... Dealing w/ soft water  1/27/10
Crew: I have the questionable honor of living in Manhattan, and as therefore am forced to deal with problematic tap water (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate08.pdf). Basically, we have no hardness (what is the opposite of "liquid rock?" "Liquid paper?") - my LFS granted me 2 degrees KH, but I think they were trying to be generous; my own kit basically gets no reading), but the pH is pretty close to neutral (unsurprisingly at this kind of softness, the readings vary a bit here).
<Sounds ideal. Tabula rasa. Just add the appropriate minerals, and you can create all kinds of water chemistry conditions!>
Now, I have always been a firm believer in choosing fish to fit your water rather than constantly trying to tweak things (why try to bring the mountain to the prophet?).
<Wise.>
I would be willing to resign to keeping a bath water warm acid pool with a bunch of happy German Rams (hey, I could be the one guy in this country who actually manages to keep these brilliant but terrible quality fish alive!), but even that doesn't seem to be a good option given my pH.
<Actually, the very soft water is rather good for Mikrogeophagus ramirezi generally; and while a pH around 5-6 is what they'd experience in the wild, the main thing is they have warm, soft water.>
As far as I know, there are few if any fish that thrive in extremely soft water with a pH of 7.2, and even if there were, the inherent instability of a system like that will likely stress me almost as much as the fish.
<The pH and hardness thing isn't set in stone. Generally, soft water fish will do just fine at this near-neutral pH.>
Therefore, I am leaning towards the "old school" RMF method of adding baking soda to the weekly change water (I do about 20% a week, my nitrate is always between 5-10) and test said water to get to 6 degrees KH, and
after a while get the level in the tank up to that level). Do you agree with that approach?
<I'd modify slightly, and use something like a Rift Valley Salt Mix to balance out the range of minerals a bit, as here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Maybe a 25-50% dose will be all you need. Experiment a little. For general communities with mixtures of livebearers, tetras, barbs, and catfish, something around 10 degrees dH, 3-5 degrees KH, and pH 7.5 works extremely well.>
I am worried that I will elevate my pH too much. (according to WWW, there is no chemical way to raise KH without also raising pH: "What chemical should I add to increase carbonate hardness? Are there any products
available that raise KH and not pH? Any help would be appreciated.
<Indeed. Of course, ammonia raises pH without alternating carbonate hardness, but virtually everything else aquarists are concerned with is "alkalinity", i.e., carbonate and bicarbonate salts.>
Cheers,
Adam,
Australia
Would a "combination therapy" make sense (e.g., add baking soda and use some crushed coral in a panty hose bag in the tank)?
<Hassle. Plus, crushed coral gets covered with bacteria and algae, so over time, its ability to react with passing water diminishes. Adding minerals to tap water is generally easier and more predictable.>
I have spent quite a bit of time researching the subject on WWW (tip for other WWW users: make sure you change the search button from "Web" to "www.WetWebMedia.com" when searching for "increase hardness" lest you get some unwanted search results), but I am still worried that I will go from "somewhat fluctuating pH" to "wildly fluctuating hardness".
<Precisely. By adding minerals to the water, you know precisely what you have from the get-go, and by doing water changes, you maintain that fairly steadily.>
As always, any help will be greatly appreciated. It's difficult to express how nice it is of you guys to volunteer your time to help others out. John  P.S. I started out by trying to keep livebearers (I know, I know...somehow, even the better New York LFS have no problem selling '10 for $10' guppy specials as "beginner fish" into this market), now I have 5 Boesemanni, a pair of Bolivian rams, a candy stripe Pleco in a planted 37G..all seem to be doing well, but I would rather solve this issue now than wait till problems arise)
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Empire State of Mind - FW, hardness disc.  1/27/10
Neale:
thank you so much for the speedy reply!
<Pleasure.>
I shall start adding away, and am already dreaming of a world of healthier plants and fish..
<Good oh!>
I admit that your sentence "this DIY approach is probably not a good idea for inexperienced aquarists" scares me a little,
<As it should. While altering water chemistry isn't difficult, if done carelessly it can create more problems than it solves. But with that said, adjusting water to make it slightly harder is very safe, because raising carbonate hardness makes water chemistry more stable. It's the reverse, softening water, that usually causes problems. Provided you measure out and add the appropriate minerals carefully, there's very little scope for fish-killing disasters.>
but when I go through the list of Seachem's products, I am a little confused about which one is the closest equivalent to your home-brew.
<The home-brew mix is essentially just the African cichlid salt mix you buy from pet stores. It isn't a replacement for pH buffers that come in bottles. These are either of use for stabilising low pH levels, typically using weak acids, in tanks with very low carbonate hardness, e.g., a Discus aquarium; or else for raising alkalinity or some other property of marine aquaria. I personally don't see any point to using pH buffer potions in moderately hard or hard freshwater aquaria, since mineral salt mixes do the job just as well.>
Should I just go ahead and fearlessly mix away, as long as I test the new water's hardness and pH?
<Well, experiment with a litre of water in a bucket first, before you start messing around with the fish. But seriously, at one-fourth to one-half the dose required for an Rift Valley cichlid aquarium, you shouldn't have any problems. Adjust the proportions of the three minerals up or down if you want. Try leaving a bucket overnight to see if the water chemistry changes any; it may well do if you didn't stir the minerals in properly, so that they only dissolved properly across a few hours. You're aiming for about 10 degrees dH, 3-6 degrees KH, and a pH around 7.5. That'll suit virtually all community fish, from South American tetras through to Mexican livebearers.>
And if I create a bucket with, say, 6 degrees KH and a pH of 7.5, should I fearlessly add that to my 7.0 pH/1 degree KH tank?
<Add the hardened water in stages, across a normal water change regime. In other words, make up enough hardened water for your usual 20-25% water change this weekend. Then do the same next weekend. And so on. That way, you'll expose your fish to slow changes in water chemistry.>
Thanks a lot!
John
<Have fun! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Empire State of Mind - FW soft/hardness, and HPO4, algae...  2/1/2010
Thanks a lot for your input, Neale!
<Happy to help.>
After a lot of tinkering, I have created my own cichlid salt mix where one teaspoon added to a 5 gallon bucket of de-chlorinated tap water creates water with 3-4 KH, 8 dh a PH of about 7.4.
<Fine.>
I would have liked to get the KH slightly higher, but adding relatively more baking soda to the mix increases my pH too much (I don't want to go above 7.5 for the kinds of fish I currently have/ will have in the future).
<I agree.>
After doing more reading on water chemistry, I became more aware of the importance of phosphates.
<No importance at all, in freshwater systems anyway. Why are you worried?>
I don't own a phosphate kit yet (ordered one, but I also read that many kits only test for organic phosphates, anyway), but the New York water utility states that our tap water contains about 2 mg/l (Ortho-) Phosphates, described as "Water additive for corrosion control". I have battled green algae blooms in the past, but after leaving the lights off for a week and then adding more fast growing plants, I seem to reached an uneasy equilibrium (water definitely looks more greenish than in my quarantine tank, but I don't get full-blown blooms).
<There's little evidence phosphates have anything to do with algal problems. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_3/fwalgae.html
Most algal problems come down to lack of fast-growing plants and the wrong type/amount of light.>
So here is my question: Assuming that my water does contain 2 ppm, would the (Ortho-) Phosphate act as a buffer in my still close to 0 KH water?
<Irrelevant.>
I tried to find more info on phosphate based buffers, but couldn't determine the answer for certain. My worry is that if I start aggressively removing phosphates in an effort to get extra-clear water, my pH might crash. What do you think?
<Above pH 7, the effects of phosphate acids are unimportant; it's really down to carbonate and bicarbonate.>
Thank you so much!
John
P.S. I did read the FAQ's on phosphate in fresh water etc, but didn't seem to find the answer.
<Because no-one cares! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Empire State of Mind - FW, HOP4, algae    2/1/10
Neale:
sounds good. I was worried about phosphates because I read in numerous places (incl. WWW) that phosphate levels at 2 ppm or higher often result in algae problems.
<In the past this was often supposed. Indeed, even now, the precise causes of algae "problems" remain obscure, and mostly you hear opinions rather than fact. At face value, yes, in the WILD, eutrophication of water bodies,
i.e., rapid increases of nitrate and phosphate levels, does usually lead to algae blooms. Sometimes these are natural, as in upwelling areas of the sea, and sometimes man-made, as when agricultural run-off gets into lakes and rivers. But broadly, yes, there is a connection. However, the problem with applying this to aquarium conditions is that an aquarium isn't a comparable system. There are plenty of aquarists with tanks that have high nitrate and phosphate levels, and yet no algae problems of any kind.
Conversely, some people constantly wrestle with algae problems despite very low nitrate and phosphate levels. So there are other factors at play. What the whole Amano trend towards planted aquaria has revealed is that fast
growing plants do, somehow, prevent algae problems. Some argue it's about nutrient uptake, others the plants cut out light, and yet others that there are allelopathic effects between plants and algae. It may be a combination of all three. But certainly, stick a big clump of Indian Fern in a messy cichlid or catfish tank, and algae stops being a problem, assuming light intensity is sufficiently bright for the Indian Fern to grow fast.>
I am getting close to upgrade to a 75g with real lighting (have an Eclipse system now, which makes it tough add enough lighting), but wanted to iron out all my water issues before I do. If you think that that my current
latent algae issues are not going to become a full-blown problem once I am using at least 3W/gallon of 10000/6700 light (provided I include enough fast growing plants), I am happy and shall leave my 2 ppm of phosphate alone.
<I agree. Provided you choose your plants carefully, you shouldn't have problems. Floating plants are easy in this regard because you just chuck 'em and let them do their thing, but they can look a bit messy! If you're going with "pretty" plants, then you need to look at things like Hygrophila, Vallisneria and so on. Essentially anything that grows like a weed should do the trick. These tend to be the species adapted to environments with lots of light, and also seem to be the ones that evolved mechanisms to deal with algae that might smother them. Algae magnet species, like Anubias and Java fern, are obviously of no use at all.>
Thanks a lot!
John
<Cheers, Neale.>

Buffering tank, adding hardness 08/02/09
Hi there.
<Hello,>
Let me start off by giving you a couple details on my tank. I am about to leave for college, and the largest size tank we can have in our dorm is a 10 gallon, unfortunately. I just started a 10 gallon tank last week for
this purpose (upgraded from the 5 gal. I had last year). In it I have 1 Firemouth, 2 rams, 1 keyhole cichlid, and 1 upside down catfish. All are around 1.5-2.5" in length.
<For now. Apart from the Rams, none of these species belong in a tank this small. Furthermore, Ram cichlids need much hotter and softer water than all the others, so they're basically incompatible. Ram cichlids (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) require very soft (less than 5 degrees dH) water that is acidic (pH 5 to 6.5) and very warm (around 28-30 C). Even putting aside the fact the commercially available stock is inbred and incredibly poor quality, these fish don't belong in community tanks.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/ramdisfaqs.htm
Firemouth cichlids by contrast need cooler, harder, more basic water, and like all Central American cichlids are noted for being aggressive when they mature. Perhaps not so waspish as Convicts, but hardly friendly fish either! So, some bad choices, and the best thing you can do is take these fish back. Some ideas on suitable fish are here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_3/stocking.htm
>
I've just finished reading a couple "beginner's guides" to freshwater aquariums to hopefully provide me with some knowledge to provide the cichlids with ideal conditions (as ideal as possible for a 10 gal setup at
least).
<Well, there's the rub.>
Both books mentioned that it's better to buffer your tank to the correct pH rather than using pH up or down.
<Most modern books recommend the opposite approach, and some magazines, like TFH Magazine, actually discourage discussion of changing water chemistry! The reason is that inexperienced hobbyists are more likely to cause problems than avoid them. So, instead of adjusting water chemistry, determine your local water chemistry, and choose fish accordingly. If you have hard water, then things like Tanganyikan Shell Dwellers would be worthwhile cichlids. In soft water, you might favour one of the hardier
Apistogramma, such as Apistogramma cacatuoides.>
I saw a couple products on the Drs. Foster and Smith website that claim to buffer your freshwater aquarium to a specific pH. Do you know anything about this type product? Are they a good thing to use or are they
worthless?
<Best avoided.>
If worthless, what alternative would you recommend or would you recommend not even bothering with buffering?
<On the contrary, water chemistry is very important. But instead of trying to change it, go along with it. Your mix of fish includes hard water species and soft water species, so whatever you did, you'd end up with sick fish.>
Also, the books mentioned that for some fish, the water should be kept at varying degrees of hardness. What can I "use" to up the hardness of my water? I tested my tap water and it is very soft. From what I looked up most of these fish need moderately hard water to thrive.
<Rams and Keyholes need soft water, Firemouths need hard. Synodontis catfish are adaptable to both.>
Lastly, I would like to have a "mini school" I guess you could say of fish in the tank. I was thinking of getting something like 3 Danios or Rasboras.
<Three isn't a school; it's a sad looking group of fish that won't school and will likely stand about looking unhappy. For a 10 gallon tank, a school of 10 Neons would certainly be viable, but these need cool water (around 23-24 C) so despite enjoying soft water would be incompatible with your Rams. They would work with Keyholes, but Keyholes need more space than a 10 gallon tank, and if kept in a too-small tank these cichlids (indeed, all cramped cichlids) will be prone to Hexamita and Hole-in-the-Head.>
Considering the fish I've already got in there, do you think that would be too much of an overload even if I do weekly water changes?
<You do weekly water changes anyway, so this is beside the by. Your choice of fish was very poor, and nothing much I can recommend will avoid the problems. Running through what's going to happen, by prediction is this:
First, in soft water, the Firemouth will start getting ragged fins, Finrot, and Fungus. You'll be dumping medications in on a regular basis. At some near point it'll probably die, but if not, it'll become an aggressive
menace once mature. The Rams will probably die anyway because most are rubbish, and you'll soon see signs of Hexamita infections thanks to the too-low water temperature. You could raise the temperature, but then the other cichlids would get stressed. The Keyhole might do okay for a while, but once it gets too big for the tank, Hexamita infections are likely.>
When some of the fish get too large (like the keyhole or Firemouth) I will be able to transport them to my dad's 75 gallon tank, so long-term space shouldn't be too much of a consideration.
<Why buy fish you can house for just a few months? Seems pointless.>
-Nick P.
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: Buffering tank, adding hardness 08/02/09
Hope that helps!? I guess I might as well just pitch the whole damn tank out the back window! I asked for advice about how I might improve the situation.
<Nick, I am sorry if you were offended or put off. I think you might have misunderstood Neale's tone. He did give you a lot of good advice. Basically he's telling you that you need to pick one type of fish that prefers soft water. A lot of people don't want to hear that they can't keep 4 different types of fish in one small tank, but that's just the way it goes for small tanks. The smaller the tank, the fewer different species of fish you can keep. In a tank of only 10g, even keeping 2 different types of fish can be pushing it. Also, I don't know of any cichlid you could keep well in a 10g tank for more than a month or two.>
Giving away a couple fish or something like that is doable. However, I'm obviously not going to be able to take my whole tank back. I stated that I've had it going for about a week. You basically let me know I'm the stupidest person imaginable.
<Ah no, if that were the case, he would likely not have given you such a long/thoughtful response.>
Yes, this is my first time with cichlids. I have much more to learn. That's why I asked for advice. However, I didn't just walk into the LFS and pick out some fish. I read the profiles on all of these in my aquarium book and they all were said to have a similar pH preference as well as hardness. In the past I have received excellent advice from this site. 100% of the time, in fact. Until now. If not for my sake, do other people getting into the aquarium hobby a favor and let someone else respond to their questions.
There's not much more discouraging to someone trying to get into the hobby than a rebuke like that.
<Neale is our most knowledgeable crew member when it comes to FW fish.
Unfortunately, we all occasionally come across as gruff when we don't mean to be.
Best,
Sara M.>

Re: Buffering tank, adding hardness 08/02/09
Sara,
<Neale here.>
Thanks much for your concern. You are right of course. Neale had some very practical advice and I would ask that you please offer him my apologies if I offended him; I guess I picked up an insinuation he wasn't intending, which was easy to do after coming home from a rough day.
<No problems. Glad the information was useful, and my apologies if the presentation wasn't what you needed after a bad day.>
I have actually found a solution to my problem- my cousin has a 75 gallon mixed cichlid tank that would be much more suitable for the large-growing, more aggressive cichlids I bought. He also has a large freshwater setup with many small fish (most of which he would be willing to trade) that would be much better suited to go in my 10 gallon tank I am taking to college. Once again, my apologies; the advice I was given was sound and I was simply in a bad predisposition receiving it.
<No harm done.>
Sincerely,
Nick Peterson
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Buffering tank, ...Conundrum re stkg.  08/02/09
Howdy.
<Aloha Nick>
I emailed early and have established that something about my 10 gallon tank is going to have to change (I set it up last week).
I've got several options but don't know what's best...I'm taking this 10 gallon aquarium to my college dorm in a couple weeks (this is our max size allowed unfortunately). What I've got in there now is not compatible. I'm giving a couple cichlids which will grow too large to my cousin. There are two fish that I really like and would like to keep one of, but don't know if either is really a viable option. One is a ram and the other is a 2-2.5" Firemouth, which I hear have quite different requirements. The ram is a more appropriate size, but they are supposed to be difficult to keep (I haven't been able to find anyplace that states why). The Firemouth has a max size of 6", which is also a problem
What might work?
1. Keep the Firemouth, buy another the same size and keep just the pair in the tank for the next school year
<They might grow too large for this tank before the year is up.>
2. Keep the ram, and find something else to go with it. If I do this, what other fish would go well with this ram?
<Likely, the best fish to keep with a ram in a 10g tank is another ram.
You might be able to get away with keeping them with some kinds of Tetra, or perhaps a small Barb (might be risky though if it grows larger and more aggressive). Personally, if it were me, I'd make this a species tank for the rams. That way you can focus on their needs and not have to worry about other fish. Rams like plants too, btw.>
3. Do something different altogether (still in the 10 gallon). If neither of the above worked I thought about making a tank with 5 tiger barbs or so.
<The Tiger barbs could work. Whatever you do though, I would strongly suggest keeping *one* type of fish. You might be able to "get away" with a few types of fish, but if you want to do this "right," your best bet is to set up a species tank. Your fish will be happier and you'll have a much easier time focusing and catering to the needs of one species of fish.>
Would this work? If so, what other fish might go well with this school and not prove too much of a load for the tank?
I would prefer one of the first two options but fear the third might be necessary. Any suggestions?
<Again, I think you could keep a pair of the rams (maybe even 3 or 4) in this tank if you made the tank a species tank, added some plants, and catered to their needs (made sure to keep the water quality high and
all).>
Thanks,
Nick P.
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Mixing naturally hard well water with softened well water FW System: Water Quality 5/22/2009
Hi!
<Hello, I must apologize in advance for the delay in responding. Things have been a bit crazy here in FL>
I have a 10 gallon, well cycled, freshwater tank, holding several neon Tetras, a couple of small Mollies, a Dwarf Gourami, a Powder Blue Gourami, and a small Pleco.
<Very overstocked for a 10 gallon.>
It has been running on our tap water, fresh well water, for years. It used to house my sons goldfish but 2 months ago I replaced them, now, very large goldfish with the fish mentioned above. (The goldfish is now happily in a pond) The water is off-the-charts hard and so is high in alkaline, but otherwise the water was testing safe for nitrites, nitrates, and no ammonia. I vacuum the gravel once a week and do a 30% water change at that time.
<Very Good>
My fish have been healthy (except for a case of Ich) and their color has been beautiful. I had to treat for Ich about 3 weeks ago which I'm assuming resulted from a new live plant addition, water and all;
<That, and over crowded conditions helped it to spread.>
I know better now not to add the water when adding fish, etc. It cleared up in about a week, after which I changed the filter.
About a week ago we had a water softener system installed because our water is so hard. Four days ago I set up my second aquarium, a 29 gallon tank. We filled it with the tap water, now softened well water.
<Softened water is very bad for aquariums. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm >
I used about a gallon of water from my old tank in the new tank to help kick start the cycling and after 24 hours I added two of my small mollies.
<The mollies would have been happier in the higher pH hard water.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm >
The ammonia immediately elevated slightly but has not exceeded the alert stage and has remained stable at slightly elevated.
<Ammonia levels of anything greater than 0 are bad.>
The PH is in "the red" but not at max on the test kit (it's a dip strip kit).
<Dip strips are not very accurate.>
Alkaline is low, in the very soft range. Nitrites and Nitrates are safe.  Water is a little cloudy but clearing. I have several live plants, and some seashells and a very old conch shell, all of which were boiled for 10 minutes and scrubbed with plain water and a toothbrush before going in the tank. I also have a white lace rock in there, (Won't the shells and the rock help to elevate the alkalinity some?)
<A little bit.>
and natural aquarium gravel, and your average aquarium decorations. After 48 hours I put the Powder Blue in there because he was getting harassed by the Dwarf and I thought there might be less stress in a new cycling tank than being
harassed in a crowded tank.
<Between being picked on or living in toxic water, I would take getting picked on.>
He's hanging in there.
<good.>
My problem is with the water. I still have access to the original hard well water and I obviously have access to softened water. Thinking that the softened water would be better than the hard water, I have been slowly adding the new softened water to the old tank as it evaporates, and after I removed some for the new tank, and now the Dwarf is losing some of his color and becoming listless. For hours I have been researching on the internet the benefits and pitfalls of hard water
versus soft water, the effects of seashells and rocks, and peat, and extra filters, and on and on...I think if my fish are bright and healthy regardless of the high PH and Alkalinity, I should continue using the original natural well water.
<Much better than anything coming out of the softener. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm>
How do I, or should I, switch the new cycling tank from the softened to the natural water?
<Water changes, a gallon or two at a time.>
Or, my final option, if I mix my reserve gallons with half hard/half softened and let them sit to use for water changes, would that give me my best choice of water?
<No, anything coming out of a softener is not good for fish.>
Thanks!
<Mike>

FW Chemistry - GH & KH, pH shift of tap water. 5/20/2009
Hello, Neale (or whoever is present)
<Hello, Mike here.>
It seems I am about to trouble you again with an entirely different problem. At least I want to know whether or not it may become a problem. I haven't tested my tap water source for a couple of years because it was always the same (except for a spike in nitrates one autumn two or three years ago).
<If you are using tap (mains) water for your aquarium, you should get into the habit of checking it before you add it to the tank. Tap water can vary daily depending on weather, seasons, etc. I learned this the hard way when the tap water I added had 1ppm of ammonia in it out of the tap.>
Otherwise, it was hard : pH 8.4 or 8.5 and both GH and KH requiring 18 or 19 drops using the Hagen liquid test kit. All I really understood from that is that I had a very high mineral content including carbonate hardness which would keep conditions stable once fish were adapted to the water but might pose a problem for species that required soft water for breeding purposes or were not sufficiently flexible to adjust to these readings.
<This is correct.>
This spring, my tapwater reads pH 7.2 to 7.4 (different days). GH (Hagen) requires 20 drops but KH requires 1 or 2 drops. (Apparently we are
receiving water from a different source.)
<Unlikely, probably changed something at the water treatment plant.>
In other words, I have a very significant drop in pH, general hardness remains about the same (very hard) but virtually 0 carbonate hardness.
Now what? Should I be taking steps to stabilize this water?
<Depends on what it is you are trying to accomplish. - what is in the tank? You now have hard water with little buffering ability, which can make your
Ph unstable.>
Interestingly, although I have been doing water changes with this water, my newly set up tank has a pH of 7.4 but an old established
tank is holding at 8.2 although it's KH is in the same range as the tap water. Am I about to face a radical change here? If so, can/should I
prevent it from happening?
<Again, it depends on what is in your tank. Your livestock may actually prefer a pH of 7.4. Without knowing what you have, it is impossible to
tell.  Do read here for some hints:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm >
I don't know whether this is pertinent or not but perhaps I should mention that the nitrate level of this water is also at absolute 0. Heretofore, that is in past years, nitrates varied a lot but never were they 0.
<Not really pertinent, but nitrate free tap water is uncommon and welcomed.>
Possibly some part of my confusion stems from the fact that I can envisage the origin of hard, basic water with high mineral content or soft, neutral water with few minerals or even acidic water with tannins or whatever but I cannot conceive of how this water came to be or what it can mean to the stability of my aquariums.
<If you are trying to keep the pH up and stable, you will need to add some sort of buffer. Please see the page I referred you to and the linked pages
at the top.>
Rosemarie
<Mike>

Re: Water Chemistry - GH & KH, pH shift of tap water. 5/21/2009
Hi Mike:
<Hi Rosemarie>
I had already read that before I wrote. I couldn't tell whether any part of it applied to me or not.  My fish are various freshwater tropicals- tetras, swords, Botias, barbs, rainbows, Farlowellas, angelfish, guppies, Corys, gouramis,
shrimps, banjo cats, Plecos, etc.
<So an average pH of 7.x would be better overall.>
In both some old established aquaria and a couple of new ones. Many of them are hybrid varieties bred and raised in the water as it was - not as it is now.
<Bringing the pH down slowly will be fine.>
I think I will be checking more regularly from now on.
<Is always best to regularly check your source water.>
Should I have been doing 40% water changes with so radically different a chemistry?
<I wouldn't, but since you already have, and there appear to have been no ill effects, I wouldn't worry too much.>
What is the likelihood of a 'pH crash' with concomitant loss of fish?
<With regular maintenance and water changes, not at all.>
Would regular water changes be sufficient to prevent it from happening?
<Yes>
Having read about this but never experienced it, I have no idea of the degree of risk to my own tanks.
<Minimal with good maintenance.>
Should I attempt to boost carbonate hardness - maybe with baking soda but minus the Epsom salts and marine mix since other general hardness remains already extreme?
<That or add some crushed coral to your tank. Will accomplish the same thing.>
Or would I need to use all three. If so, what ratio would be best to begin with?
It does sound more like something created in the water treatment plant.
Are there any other minerals that it could be significant here - either too high or too low; questions I should ask the water supplier, perhaps.
<Personally, I would be surprised if they noticed the change.>
Not sure how there can be such heavy mineral content and low pH. Where do all the ions go?
<Ahhh... depends on the ions. Hard water does not always mean high pH.>
Would prefer to keep pH in the 7.5 range as this is more acceptable to a wider variety of fish but really want the dependability of stable water.
<7.5 with the right KH and GH will be very stable. I keep my planted FW tank between 7.5 and 7.8>
<Mike>

Re: FW Chemistry - GH & KH, pH shift of tap water. 5/21/2009
Mike:
<Hi Rosemarie>
Perhaps my questions sound rather inane or the result of carelessness on my part. My apologies if so.
<No apologies are necessary>
I appreciate WWM and the information it provides and have read your articles analyzing the good or ill of various types of water
<On behalf of Bob and the rest of us, thank you.>
But, you see, we have lived in this area for over 45 years with no appreciable change in water - always infamously hard and basic but dependably consistent and I have no idea how this sort of abrupt change would impact on established planted tanks or what sorts of changes I should make in maintaining tanks, new or old, with this sort of water chemistry.
<Your concerns are understandable. It always amuses me how aware people who keep aquariums are of what is coming out of their tap as opposed to those who don't. My neighbors wonder why their shower heads get filled with crud. I KNOW why, down to the parts per million.>
If I am over-reacting, please feel free to tell me so.
<Not at all, no worries!>
<Mike>

Re: mixing hard and softened water Now stocking. FW Stocking. 5/22/2009
Hello again,
<Hi.>
Coming from a different e-mail address, I know. Today I have actual test result numbers and a couple more questions. Hope you update soon.
<Ahh... very good.>
I vacuumed the 10 gallon tank and added 1 ½ gallons of the natural hard well water. My Dwarf Gourami seems to be doing well again. The PH is now 8.4, Alkalinity above 300 (which is normal for this tank) 0 Chlorine, very hard at 300 (also normal), 0 Nitrites, Nitrates up a bit at 30. ) Ammonia at safe as always. Tank is a little crowded but everyone is getting along well. Hope to move the Dwarf into the 29 gallon soon.
<Sounds good, things will get a little better once you give everyone some space. Your pH is still a bit high, you may want to mix it with some reverse osmosis water to bring the pH down a bit.>
Day 5 on the new 29 gallon softened water tank. (want to be clear that it is not a soft water tank)
<Got it.>
PH is 8.2, Alkalinity at 120, 0 Chlorine, soft at 75ppm, Nitrites 0, Nitrates at 10, (hoping the live plants will help with this) Ammonia down slightly from .05 to .03. Mollies and Powder Blue Gourami doing well.
<Any ammonia is toxic to fish.>
I am obviously new at this so I would like your input on my fish choices for the 29 gallon (after I get the hard/softened issue resolved). I am going for the look of saltwater fish without the expense and difficulty of the tank, hence the Powder Blue and Dwarf. I'd like 2 Powder Blues, a Dwarf, 2 gold Mickey Mollies, and 1 Creamsicle Lyretail Mollie to start.
<I must confess I am not a fan of Mollies in an all FW system. They typically do much better in a brackish water or even a saltwater tank.  That said, your water is essentially liquid rock, which is likely why you are having success with them.>
I love the color and flowy fins in Congo tetras, and I really would like a large school of something silver (I love the silver dollars, but out of the question; perhaps I'll have to settle for Black Neon Tetras)and I like Silver Hatchet fish. The problem with the Congos and Hatchets is a minimum of 6 each is recommended and there goes what space I have! Do you think that 5 Congos and 3 Hatchets would be content?
<Likely so.>
The other problem is that these are all mid to top dwellers. I also want to put some Ghost Shrimp in, and will probably need a Pleco or some other Algae Eater. I'd love to have a Violet Goby Dragon curled up under my driftwood decoration. I also saw a Blue Rainbowfish and I really love the color but am afraid he won't get along with my gentler choices, and he also sucks up 4 inches all by himself,
<All I have in my FW tank is rainbows - They are actually quite peaceful, but need room to swim.>
although I like the interest that the larger fish would add. Have also considered Opal or Blue Gourami for this. Given these preferences, what do you think would give me the result I'm looking for, and how many of these choices can I fit, considering 7 inches of fish will be Labyrinths. (Doesn't that make a difference?)
<No, seven inches of fish is still seven inches, regardless of how they breathe.>
I want to choose wisely because I want to enjoy the full beauty and de-stressing benefit of my tank. (mollies have dirty waste habits I'm not fond of and little things like that will make or break a choice).
<Smaller, peaceful, schooling fish would do better here.>
I think that's it for now. I love that I found this site, and you guys are great to do this. So much info it's overwhelming. 'A little knowledge' you know what they say. Maybe for me less is more.
<Never, keep reading and learning. Try to learn something new every day.>
Thank you.
<My pleasure>
D in Pittsburgh PA
<MikeV, currently in Montreal Canada>

Water Chemistry, FW, bewared home water softeners!  5/5/09
I have well water that has a PH of 8.2, however, I have my water for my house on a softening system.
<Do not ever use water from a domestic water softener in a fish tank. Most reputable water softener installers will tell you this, alongside also telling you not do drink the softened water. Domestic water softeners don't "soften" the water in the way aquarists mean it; all they do is replace the limescale-causing salts with sodium, and the resulting sort-of-soft but saline water is just horrible for fish.>
Thus the problem is that I have a high PH but soft (GH/KH) water.
<Use the drinking water tap, which should be unsoftened. If your water is "liquid rock", there's really nothing wrong with that. Sure, you can't keep Neons, Ram cichlids and other soft water fish -- but there are plenty of fish that *prefer* rock-hard water! Start with the Livebearers, either the regular kinds (Guppies, Platies, etc.) or the more unusual ones if you need a challenge (Limia, Ameca splendens, Xenotoca, etc.). Rift Valley cichlids as well as all Central American fish (including cichlids and Central American characins, such as Cave Tetras) thrive in very hard water, as do Goldfish and many of the European/West Asian killifish. So there are plenty of options; see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestk.htm
>
Is this even possible, is it because of the softening system?
<Yes.>
Can I put fish that prefer a high PH with hard water into my tank that is a high PH with soft water?
<No. Fish don't feel pH; it's actually trivial. Aquarists tend to talk about pH because it's an easy, High School concept they're familiar with, and much of the time it describes water chemistry adequately well: hard water has a high pH, soft water a low pH. But the fish really don't care; what they worry about is hardness, both General and Carbonate. Do see here about water chemistry:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
>
Thanks for your expert advice. Sincerely,
Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 05/09/09
Hello again, sorry, but I am a little confused. I have always had the fish in this softened water for many years now, and they have done fine.
<Until now. Hence my point. If you put fish in the wrong water chemistry, it might not kill them immediately, but it will make them weaker over time, and eventually you can end up with problems.>
I have a 72 gallon with two pictus catfish, one pearl Gourami, some fancy tail guppies, some Royal Black Tetras and two tin foil barbs, one of which I have had for six years. Therefore, I don't understand how this water is
bad for the fish.
<Guppies may tolerate soft water for a while, but it isn't good for them, and mostly, they get sick. There's a saying that playing Russian Roulette once and surviving doesn't mean it's a safe game. Apart from the Guppies, all the other fish here come from soft water habitats.>
Also, my drinking tap water is the same softened water, and the softener company never told me not to drink it.
<Ask your MD instead. Or see, for example the CDC, here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001-d000100/d000009/d000009.html
>
I was under the assumption that most important with PH was to keep it stable.
<Within reason, but the pH has to be within the safe zone for a given fish.
Corydoras will be happy between pH 6 and pH 8, but the pH should be stable within that range. Likewise, Guppies are happy between 7.0 and 8.5, but again, it needs to be stable.>
My brother has a new, cycled 29 gallon tank with one marble angelfish, and can't seem to keep the water PH consistent. He has soft water with a PH of 6.8, that just keeps dropping once water is in tank, drops to 5.0 PH.
<Obviously has little/no carbonate hardness.>
He has used Seachem Neutralizer to make the water a consistent 7.0 PH, but it only worked for one month and now won't work.
<Do see here for why water chemistry matters and how to regulate it easily:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Also see here for the problems associated with soft water:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwsoftness.htm
>
In research he has read to use "Crushed Coral" to buffer the water so that the PH stays constant, use a little at a time in a stocking, until you reach the desired PH, but now will that also make the water harder which is not good for the angelfish?
<No, this method isn't applicable here. Read the first of the two articles, and in particular the "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix". Added to each bucket of water at one-fourth to one-third the dosage used in Rift Valley cichlid tanks, you'll probably find the Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix a cheap and easy way to control water chemistry.>
Now that you tell me the PH does not matter and only the hard or softness of the water does, should my brother not worry about stabilizing the PH in his Angelfish tank?
<Your brother needs to worry about both; drops from pH 6.8 to 5 within a week is just not acceptable. Whatever fish you get, they'll be severely stressed.>
How far can the PH drop?
<Meaning how much variation is safe? Not much. Let's say the pH was 6.8 today, and a week later it was pH 6.7 or 6.6, that would be okay (and in fact not uncommon).>
Thanks for your help, and I am sorry if I seem ignorant, but I have read constantly about the water chemistry and you are the only person that I have come across that says the PH does not matter, and softened water is bad for the fish.
<You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Let's spell it out again just to be crystal clear: [1] All fish can adapt to a range of water chemistry values, meaning hardness and pH. For example, Corydoras are happy between 5-20 degrees dH, and between pH 6 to 8. [2] No fish tolerates rapid changes in pH. So even if your Corydoras are happy *between* pH 6 and 8, if the pH drops from 8 to 6 across a week, that will stress them. If the pH change is
really fast, it'll kill them. [3] Provided the pH is within the range of tolerance, it doesn't much matter what the value is, so long as it is steady from week to week. [4] Water from a domestic water IS NOT soft water like you find in the Amazon. It retains high general hardness but zero carbonate hardness, and that means it is subject to rapid pH changes. It also contains significant amounts of sodium, well above what freshwater fish would normally experience. Some freshwater fish react badly to this, becoming more prone to things like Dropsy. It is absolutely standard in the
UK at least for the drinking water tap to bypass the domestic water softener. In other parts of the world I cannot say. But if you have unsoftened water, that's the one to use for your aquarium fish. Find out the pH and hardness of the unsoftened water, and then choose fish that enjoy it.>
I will also read as you have suggested with your links. Thanks again.
Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 05/09/09
I have just read your information on water chemistry, I do have the R/O unit with my water softener, so that explains why I drink from the tap, which is where I fill the water for the fish.
<Sorry, I'm confused a bit here. An RO unit -- a reverse-osmosis unit -- isn't the same thing as a domestic water softener. Water from an RO filter is NEVER used in fish tanks "as is". It is too pure. Usually, it is mixed
with some tap water or a mineral mix of some kind. For my community tanks, I mix 50/50 rainwater (essentially the same thing as RO water) with the hard tap water I have.>
However, my readings are GH Soft, like 0, and my KH is very high around 300.
<Are you sure about this? Domestic water softeners remove carbonate hardness (measured with the KH) not general hardness. We measure carbonate hardness with a KH test kit, and the scale is either mg/l calcium carbonate or degrees KH.>
My PH is 8.2. So this is really difficult, I am amazed my fish have survived...any suggestions? I have sand substrate which was not supposed to affect the PH, per the guy at the fish store, however, I have an idea that this is why my PH is 8.2, and my KH is 300.<If it's an inert sand, like silica sand, it shouldn't alter water
chemistry.>
Thanks again.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry   5/11/09
Hello Again, thanks so much for your patience.
<Happy to help.>
I have a R/O on my sink and a softener for the well water that comes into my house, for showering, washing dishes, etc.
<You drink RO water, and use a domestic water softener for everything else, right? OK. Water from the drinking water tap can be used with aquarium fish, but not directly. RO water by itself is far too soft for aquarium fish, even softwater fish. I'm surprised you're drinking it to be honest, because while there's some debate about whether RO (or Deionised) water is actually harmful, the vast majority of medics and dentists maintain that mineralised is better for you, providing not just fluoride for the teeth but also traces of magnesium, calcium, etc used elsewhere. In any event, you can't use this "as is" for any aquarium fish. As a baseline, I'd mix 50% RO water with 50% hard tap water, and then see what you got. If the pH was around 7.0-7.5, and the hardness "moderate" by whatever scale you're using, that should be perfect for a vast range of community tropicals.>
The only water if I purchase from store without any nitrites is the Purified Water. I have checked all water...drinking, Spring, all have something not good, usually Nitrites.
<Ammonia and nitrite in drinking water is not uncommon. Do remember your filter will remove these quickly. The difference between the ammonia and nitrite from water, and the ammonia and nitrite from your fish, is that fish constantly make the ammonia that becomes nitrite. Once the ammonia and nitrite in the new water is neutralised by the filter (and the water conditioner, if you choose one that removes ammonia) then it's gone. Your fish, by contrast, are producing the stuff all the time, and that's the danger!>
The Purified water is too pure, just like you say with the R/O.
Therefore, I am unsure which water to use now. I thought as long as it had no Ammonia, or Nitrites, or chlorine, it was okay.
<It's really very simple. Whatever water you add to the aquarium should be about neutral in pH (slightly above or below is fine) and around 10 degrees dH in terms of hardness. There should be no ammonia in it, and that's removed using dechlorinators such as AmQuel that remove ammonia as well as chlorine/Chloramine. Now, I've said this is "simple", and it really is provided you understand that what is in the water is as important as what isn't. If you live somewhere the water comes from a chalk aquifer, like I
do, you end up with what we Brits call "Liquid Rock", water with a very high pH and hardness: typically 8 to 8.2, 20-25 degrees dH. Lots of fish will adapt to this, and livebearers plus numerous cichlids absolutely love it. But if you want to keep soft water fish like Angels, there's an argument to be made in favour of softening the water a bit. I mix 50/50 tap water and rainwater, and I get around pH 7.5, 10 degrees dH. Perfect!
There's no brain power involved at all: when I change the water, I take out buckets in pairs, so I can add one bucket of rainwater for every one bucket of tap water. Piece of cake. What I suggest you do is find the bypass tap (faucet) that gives you access to the water as supplied. Check the water chemistry (or have your pet store do it). Give me the pH and the hardness, ideally the carbonate hardness but the general hardness will do too. If you have liquid rock like I do, mixing 50/50 with the RO water would be the way to go!>
I use Prime with each water change any how. Please advise on the Crushed Coral to buffer my brother's angelfish tank, should I use this in a stocking, like suggested until the PH is stabilized to around 7.0 PH? I
don't want him to keep using liquids to adjust PH, as we know this is expensive, unstable, etc. You are the BEST! I can't thank you enough for your help.
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/12/09
Helps Bunches...yes the water using the dip test strip shows "0" ppm on the GH and I know this does not make sense but seems to show the color of "300" ppm for the KH, unless the color does not match any on the chart, but it seems to be bluish dark green and match the "300", as stated above.
This is why I thought it was the sand that raised the KH and my PH to a constant 8.2.
<It is what it is...>
Cause sand is basically the carbonate, correct, which buffers PH, right?
<Silica sand is silica, and doesn't alter pH at all. Coral sand is calcareous, and yes, it will raise the pH and buffer against pH changes. So it depends on the sand you use.>
I have to see if I can find the by pass to get the water directly from my well, and test that. Thanks so much on clarifying the store purchased water and ammonia and nitrites found in it, that was so frustrating and why I moved over to the "Purified". Interesting, very interesting, who knew?
<Indeed.>
Thanks so much, this can be annoying, and once again, I am amazed my fish have survived using the softened water. Also, be aware, that the salt in the softening system only back flushes the filter system when it becomes clogged, and does not actually get into the water, so the salt in the water as you mentioned which is bad for the fish, I am not sure this is applicable in my case.
<This may vary between some systems, but some sodium *does* get into drinking water from domestic water softeners. See, for example, this at the Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317
The harder your water to begin with, the more sodium that ends up in the softened water. I'm assuming your RO water filter at the kitchen water tap was installed for precisely this purposes, to remove the sodium from the softened water used for drinking.>
One last question, you mentioned purchasing the "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix" to buffer my brother's Angelfish tank, is the salt bad or good, confused, or is this just special stuff?
<It's not "salt", it's "mineral salts" plural. That's important to understand. Cichlid salt mix raises both general hardness (which affects osmoregulation) and carbonate hardness (which affects pH stability). It doesn't much alter salinity. So the simple answer is, yes, it's "special stuff".>
Why are you against using the "crushed coral" to buffer in a freshwater tank, as others have suggested?
<Firstly, because crushed coral dissolves into the water over time, so when you do water changes, it takes hours/days for the water chemistry to re-adjust to where it should be. Secondly, the rate at which the crushed coral dissolves depends on how much water flows past it. If the crushed coral is just sitting at the bottom of the tank, the reaction occurs very slowly because little water moves past it. If the crushed coral is part of an undergravel filter, where water is passing through it all the time, the reaction is faster. Thirdly, once the crushed coral is covered with bacteria and algae, it stops reacting with the water. So you can suddenly find the pH changing, seemingly for "no apparent reason". All told, it's an unpredictable, fiddly method that doesn't work very well.>
Okay, that's two more questions, sorry! Have a nice day. Thanks so much again. Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/14/09
Again. Thanks.
<You're welcome.>
I am learning so much, and finding a lot of different information on fish keeping. However, you do make sense, and the "crushed coral" idea...forget about it!!! I will get the other stuff. Your help is truly deeply appreciated. Have a lovely day. Wanny
<Glad it's all making sense now! Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/15/09
Hello Neale,
I am unable to find exactly the "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt Mix" so I am going to try your homemade recipe on the site...the Ocean Marine Salt, Baking Soda, and Epsom Salt mix.
<Ah, "Rift Valley Cichlid Salt mix" isn't a brand or product name... it's just what I call the stuff. Mention this to a decent retailer and they'll know what you're after, and realise you want something different to either [a] marine salt mix or [b] generic aquarium tonic salt. That said, the recipe I describe has been used for decades, and works well. It costs very little to make, too.>
I am going to use the calculations per 20 gallons for a 29 gallon tank, which is what my brother's angelfish is in. Hopefully this dosage will put the PH stable at around 7.0. My understanding is to add more of this mixture as you do water changes, correct?
<You add the Salt Mix to each bucket of water. Let's say you have a 5 gallon bucket, and you're doing a water change of two buckets. Take out two buckets from the tank and pour down the drain (on the garden plants, or whatever). Next up, put 5 gallons of new water in your 5 gallon water. Add the right amount of salt mix *for this bucket of water, not the whole tank*. In other words, if you were keeping Malawi cichlids, you'd add one level tablespoon Epsom salt, one level teaspoon each of baking soda and marine salt mix. Stir well, dechlorinate, add to the tank. Repeat this for the second bucket. For other types of fish, such as your Angelfish, you'd reduce the amount of each "ingredient" as required; I'd suggest using one-quarter to one-half the amount, depending on your circumstances.>
Therefore, if I was changing approximately 6 gallons per week, I should use even less of these ingredients with the six gallon water change? How can I figure out the dosage per gallon?
<Let's say 6 gallons in 5 gallons for now; the difference is trivial. For each bucket, add about one-quarter a level tablespoon Epsom salt, and one-quarter a level teaspoon Epsom salt and Marine salt mix. When you've mixed them in, check the pH and hardness. So long as you get a pH around 7-7.5, and a hardness somewhere in the "medium" range on your test kits, you're fine.>
That would be easier during water changes as to not overdose...I don't want the water getting hard, or too high in PH, as you know Angelfish like the water soft and slightly acidic.
<This is true, though to be fair, modern domesticated Angels are very adaptable.>
Also, my brother tells me the PH is staying stable at around 6.4 using the Seachem Buffer right now. It seems this is an okay PH for the Angelfish, however, I am aware that the beneficial bacteria prefer a PH of 7.0 and up to survive happily, if not for that I would just tell him to keep using the Seachem Buffer because it is keeping PH stable at this time, in a range the angelfish like.
<If everything is working, your brother may want to carry on with what he's doing. There's no burning need to change the water chemistry if it's stable; the point to the salt mix we discussed above is that it's useful *when water chemistry isn't stable* and the pH bounces around between water changes.>
Your suggestions are much appreciated. Oh please, one more thing, what a pain I am...I have had my first experience with "Ich". I have tetras in a Quarantine tank that have come down with this disease. I am currently treating with "Quick Cure" and have read about the cycle of the disease, etc. If the fish make it, and I get rid of the disease, can it come back when I add them to my main tank?
<It will not come back *unless* you add more un-quarantined fish. Ick medication works (provided you're not using carbon in the filter, a common mistake!) by killing NOT the white spots but the free-living "baby" parasites. This is why it takes a few days to work, you have to wait for the white spot "adults" to turn into the free-living parasites. Anyway, the Ick medication kills these, and stops the cycle of re-infection. People invariably get Ick because they've added new fish; it doesn't appear out of nowhere.>
I am so afraid now to keep these fish and add to my main tank when illness seems to be gone, just in case they are carriers and it comes back in my main tank? Any ideas on that one? I plan on keeping these fish in quarantine for at least five months now, and just might not add them to my main tank.
<Five months is overkill! 2-4 weeks should work just fine.>
Again, you are so kind to help me. Happy Fish!
Wanny
<Happy to help. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Water Chemistry 5/15/09
Howdy,
<Hi,>
Thanks for the quick response. I will have him leave his water as is for now, and make him check PH everyday.
<Good plan.>
In the beginning of using the Seachem treatment, it kept it at 7.0 for more than a month. However, in the last week it has lowered it to the 6.4, so I was worried it would keep dropping, and if it does, I am all too excited to use your "Ancient Chinese Secret" (Hee Hee).
<Sounds as if the buffer he's using isn't sufficient by itself; do be aware all aquaria tend to become acidic over time, and some things (e.g., bogwood) will accelerate this.>
Good to know about the Ick. I had read that fish could just carry the disease with no signs, but I suppose if I get that neurotic about it, I might as well just give up fish keeping all together. These diseases give me the creeps! Have a pleasant day. Thank you for everything. Wanny
<Cheers, Neale.>  

Torgo the Betta update, sys., reading  3-4-09 Hello crew! <Elspeth> This weekend I managed to scrape together sufficient funds to buy Torgo a 6 US Gallon tank with a nice BioWheel filter (with adjustable flow so it's nice and gentle) and a heater. I have it cycling and it is staying around 77 degrees Fahrenheit. In the meantime, I am continuing to change 25% of Torgo's water with a turkey baster every day and am giving him a ~100% water change once a week-- all with unfiltered, treated (dechlorinated) water. One question: There are so many products out there that say they will harden my water  (it is oh, so soft at my house). <Really? How soft is soft? Not water that is "run" through a residential water softener I hope/trust... if so, I'd "go outside", use the tap from a spigot, warm up and use it instead> What is your favorite product/method to add some minerals to your water? <Just exposure to natural carbonate material...> Thanks for all your help and patience! -Elspeth <Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardnessfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Torgo the Betta update - 03/06/09 Oh my gosh! I got a reply from Bob, himself! Hello again crew! <Hi!> I think you'll be happy to know that don't treat our water and the hardness is the same from the tap as it is from the hose: 4dKH and 17.9ppm I used the API Aquarium Pharmaceuticals KH/GH test. From what I've read around, Bettas like "moderate hardness" and I don't think that my water qualifies. <Bettas will adapt to a wide range of conditions, and in the wild, will be living in fairly soft water, as is common for most (though certainly not all) Southeast Asian fish. However, it is true to say that soft water aquaria can be less difficult to maintain than hard water aquaria, so by default, it's usually best to aim for neutral, moderately hard water conditions if you have the option. This won't harm soft water fish at all, but will resist pH changes much better than soft water will.> Soft water certainly gives a lovely lather in the shower, but I'm not so sure Torgo will like it. <It's unlikely to be an issue provided you can ensure pH stays stable; that's usually the problem with soft water aquaria.> On the FAQs I read that adding baking soda may be useful. How much per gallon would you recommend? <I wouldn't recommend adding just baking soda by itself. Instead, I'd use some Rift Valley salt mix, which you can either buy ready made or mix yourself very inexpensively. A classic Rift Valley mix, per 5 gallons (20 litres) is as follows: 1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) 1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) 1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements) Since you're not keeping a hard water fish as such, I'd actually start by using one-quarter the amount, stir well, test the water, and see what your water chemistry test kits say. It should be adequate, but if not, perhaps use one-half the amount.> I also read that someone was adding a chunk o' coral to his freshwater tank-- which was ok by Neale-- since his water needed to be hard and alkaline. <Crushed coral, as opposed to a dead coral, can be used to buffer the water, but only within certain limits. Firstly, water has to be flowing past the crushed coral, so you have to put the coral inside the filter, often an undergravel or canister filter. Secondly, it's difficult to predict how quickly and how effectively crushed coral will work, which is why it's usually used in large amounts (so it's quick) and in systems where a high pH/hardness is required (so there's no danger of "overdosing"). A Malawi cichlid aquarium is the classic situation. Thirdly, crushed coral has to be regularly cleaned or replaced, else it loses its efficacy. In short, in a small Betta tank, sticking a head of coral in the aquarium is not going to create precise, manageable conditions of the sort you're after. I'd also add that the trade in dead corals is generally considered unsustainable and is illegal in some areas, e.g., Europe, so unless you have access to dead corals from (unsuccessful!) marine fishkeepers, I can't in all honesty recommend anyone use them. Faux corals are just as good looking, don't affect water chemistry, and are not expensive.> Would this be a possible solution, or is it likely to make the water too hard for a Betta? <Wouldn't use coral in this system.> (and how would it go for tetras? My sister has a tank of cute little neon and cardinal tetras over at her place, so I'm curious.) I guess it would depend on the size of the coral chunk, eh? <Repeat after me: corals do not belong in a freshwater aquarium. If you want corals, either get faux ones, or set up a marine aquarium and keep live ones! There's really no ethically or practically acceptable use for dead coral skeletons in freshwater tanks.> Ultimately, I think I should look into having a soft water tank after Torgo goes to that big fish tank (or rice field) in the sky, in a few years (since Bettas have fairly short lifespans). If I've got soft water, I may as well use it to my advantage, right? (your Soft Water Aquarium page gave me some food for thought.) <This is consistently my advice: Learn your water conditions, and choose fish that enjoy them. In soft water areas your challenge is pH stability, so that invariably means using as big a tank as you can afford, and to tend towards understocking it to prevent excessive amounts of decay.> Thank you for your patience and advice! Sincerely, -Elspeth <Cheers, Neale.>

Hardness question, African Cichlid Sys.  3-4-09 Hello all, <Jim> I recently had the pleasure of stumbling upon your site and have been greatly impressed with the wealth of information found here. I have a 265 gallon all-male hap and peacock African cichlid tank. My question concerns the level of hardness as I believe mine is a little low. My water parameters are as follows: Temp= 80 <Mmm, I'd allow to be lower... will reduce aggression appreciably... as I see you intend to add a good deal more fishes> pH= 8.0 Ammonia= 0 Nitrites= 0 Nitrates= 10 KH= 5 degrees GH= 10 degrees <Mmmm> Water out of the tap measures as: ph= 7.6 KH= 6 degrees GH= 8 degrees My substrate and tank decor consists of Aragonite sand, lace rock and about twenty onion plants. <Sounds very nice> Filtration is provided by a Fluval FX5 and an Eheim 2217 with an additional FX5 to be added within the next week. The tank is very lightly stocked at the moment, containing twelve 3.5 to 5 inch fish. I plan on adding about 25- 30 more for a total of around 40 adult fish. I change about 25- 30% of the water every 3- 4 days as I can't stand the waste buildup on the sand. <A very good practice> I have always adhered to the philosophy of keeping things simple. In my opinion, the more water changes and the less chemical tinkering the better. <I am in total agreement> Basically, keeping water parameters consistent at a slightly less than ideal level is better than creating a chemical soup trying to find the "perfect" environment. However, if there is a simple solution to keep my hardness levels in a more acceptable range, I would definitely be willing to give it a try. I have read on here about adding crushed coral to my filters which seems easy enough. I had mistakenly thought that the Aragonite sand would sufficiently buffer the water but it makes sense that a constant flow through the media would be needed instead. What I am trying to avoid is having to add anything to the water when I do water changes. How unacceptable do you think my current hardness levels are? <They are fine> If I just add the crushed coral to my filter, will I create too much of a difference in the hardness between the water in my tank and the water coming from my tap and stress the fish with the constant fluctuations? <It would (initially) raise both the GH and KH... but...> Or should I leave well enough alone? Thanks for your help, Jim McGunnigle <If it were me/mine I would very likely leave well enough alone here Jim... It reads as if you have a very nice system, a good maintenance protocol, and a very good handle/understanding on basic aquarium husbandry... You are very likely a very reasonable/strong instigator of others getting into our hobby/interest. I thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

pH/Ammonia Issue, barb sys., env. dis.      1/6/09 I have a 26 gallon bow front tank with 7 different types of barbs (Rosey, long finned Rosey, ruby, Odessa) and 1 rainbow shark. I have a whisper filter and an undergravel filter. The temp is set at 78 degrees. This tank used to be for goldfish but has only had the barbs for about three months. When I first started up I slowly added the fish and everything checked out. After awhile the water was somewhat cloudy and the fish were swimming near the bottom and not really eating which I think resulted in over feeding since I kept feeding them. <Do understand that "overfeeding" in itself isn't the issue. When you put food in the tank, it pollutes the water. It doesn't matter much whether it goes through the digestive system of a fish or not. The point is that if the tank is too small, the filter flow too weak, or the biological filter media insufficiently mature, the food ends up as ammonia. That ammonia stresses the fish, and commonly this reveals itself as fish that are lethargic, nervous, poorly coloured, or sick. Prolonged exposure invariably leads to disease and ultimately death.> I took my water to a local pet shop and they tested it and said everything was ok (I never asked for the actual numbers). After talking with a friend he suggested I buy a PH kit and test that since he thought the water might be too acidic. It turned out to be very acidic and he told me to add 3/4 teaspoon baking soda every four hours. I did that and got the PH up. <the pH of the water is generally not a factor in keeping freshwater fish except insofar as the pH is stable from week to week. All the fish you list will be fine between pH 6 and pH 8. Adding baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will raise the carbonate hardness of the water and that in turn raises and stabilises the pH. But it is critically important not to change the water chemistry rapidly. I'd actually investigate a couple other issues before adding baking soda. Firstly, are you using water from a domestic water softener? A very common mistake is to do this! Secondly, how often do you change the water? Your tank is extremely heavily stocked for its size, assuming you have sensible numbers (5-6 specimens) of each species of barb. My guess is that you're in a soft water area, which is fine by itself, but because the tank is overstocked, the pH is unstable. Do see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebindex/fwsoftness.htm> However the water stayed somewhat cloudy and the fish started dying. This time I went and bought my own water test kits. The nitrate and nitrate were 0 but the ammonia was high. I did a partial water change and got the ammonia down. However then the PH went back down so I added more baking soda and the cycle continued. All the while I was losing fish. <Again, my assumption is not that the pH or hardness are "wrong" as such, though they may be relatively low, let's say pH 6 to 7, 5-10 degrees dH, right out the tap. The sheer biological loading on the tank means that the water volume just can't buffer against acidification.> After reading different things on the internet I am very confused as everyone I talked to or everything I read keeps giving me different information. At present the ammonia is 0.25 and the PH is 6.6. I have been doing 25% water changes every other day and adding BioZyme every day. <Water changes a good remedy for situations like this, but clearly not something you want to do in the long term.> So far the fish are ok, although I am expecting to lose one of my Odessa barbs anytime since its stomach is bloated and its scales are sticking out which seems to be dropsy. Everything I read indicates there is nothing I can do to save my fish and it will die. <Indeed.> Please advise me on what to do with my tank. I need advice on the ammonia and the Ph in keeping them stable and getting my water to clear. Anything at this point will help. Kelly <Rosy Barbs (Puntius conchonius) don't belong in tropical tanks anyway (they're subtropical fish) and get too big (15 cm/6 inches) for this aquarium. The Odessa Barb (Puntius padamya) are a bit smaller (8-10 cm/3-4 inches) and a group of six or so would be borderline acceptable in this tank. Ruby Barbs (Puntius nigrofasciatus) are smaller still (5 cm/2 inches) and a group of 6 would be ideal additions to this tank, though they are very feisty and best kept only with other barbs and not with anything long-finned, slow, or nervous. In other words, start by bringing us some actual numbers about the water from the tap: pH and general hardness. Then think about which barbs you want to keep. Stock the tank slowly, taking care not to overfeed, and to be honest, feeding once every other day would be ample while the tank is unstable. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue   1/6/09 You indicated that you wanted the PH and hardness of the tap water. When I tested the PH of the tap water it came out to be 7.6. I waited about an hour and tested it again without adding anything and it was still 7.6. I do not believe I have soft water as I do not have a water softener. <From the pH, it does sound as if you probably have moderately hard, basic water. When writing pH, note the lower case "p", upper case "H".> Also, I get water from the city sewer system. <Eh? How/why do you put sewage into your aquarium? Mains water -- i.e., drinking water -- is just fine and dandy for most aquarium fish. Except in very specific situations, you usually don't need to add or alter anything beyond adding a good dechlorinator/water conditioner.> Is there a way to test the hardness of the water so I can give you those numbers? <I'd heartily recommend getting a carbonate hardness (or KH) test kit. Some test kits come as paper strips, sometimes with multiple different tests per strip, so that each strip does pH, carbonate hardness, general hardness, nitrite, and nitrate. Such test kits are usually inexpensive and easy to use.> If so, please suggest specific tests. I guess I was not very clear when I said I have 7 different types of barbs, I meant 7 total fish. I have 2 Odessa Barbs (one on its way to death), 2 rosy barbs, 1 ruby barb, 2 tico barbs, and 1 rainbow shark. <Remember when you were reading aquarium books and they mentioned how barbs become aggressive sometimes, and nip other fish? This is how. They are schooling fish. That means their whole psychology works around groups. Six is the minimum number PER SPECIES. Keep less than that and they'll either be terrified or psychotic. Barbs are wonderful fish, but you have to get the fundamentals right. Stocking an aquarium isn't like putting a bunch of different cut flowers in a vase. You can't just choose shapes and colours you like. You have to understand the needs of each animal (yes, fish are animals) and work around them. Generally fishkeeping is a very easy hobby if you do things correctly (i.e., exactly as a good book or expert fishkeeper like me tells you!). But try to go it alone, and things often get messy...> I was told with my 26 gallon I could have about 20 barbs at some point if I can get things stable. <Not a chance. For a start, "barbs" covers a variety of species from one-inch dwarfs to giant barbs bigger than a dog. So obviously "twenty barbs" has to be mediated by the size of the barb species concerned. Since you need six of each species, at least, twenty barbs would be, at most, three different species (seven of one, seven of another, and six of a third). While you could keep twenty dwarf species like Puntius gelius or Puntius vittatus, bigger species like Puntius conchonius (the Rosy Barb) are right out.> However I have never been able to add more because the water has been unstable. You also asked how often I change the water and I normally change 25% of the water once every 7-10 days and change the carbon filter once a month. However with the ammonia spikes I have been doing it every other day or so because it has been getting so high. <The tank is almost certainly overstocked relative to the maturity of the filter. If I were you, I'd return all the barbs except the Ruby Barbs, since they're the only species that make sense in this tank. Let the tank settle down. After 2-3 weeks of careful management I'd fully expect the filter to mature safely and the pH to stabilise. You can then add some more Ruby Barbs to bring the school up to a sensible size. I'd make sure to keep six of them, three males to three females. While females aren't so strongly coloured, they help the males settle in and dilute the aggression. They also encourage the males to acquire their breeding colours as they mature, in which condition the males are extremely handsome. Ruby Barbs are pretty aggressive fish though, so don't expect to keep anything dainty or long-finned like Guppies or Angelfish -- just isn't going to happen! The Rainbow Shark Minnow should be returned too, though you could try keeping it if you felt like a challenge. Shark Minnows are aggressive and very territorial once mature, and my assumption would be it will become a bit of a terror in a tank this small! But that's your choice. All the other fish should go, period.> So, I guess I still need advice on how to stabilize the ammonia and PH and once I get all that situated I will need to know which barbs can go together since I was told all barbs can go together. <No they can't.> I will be happy to provide all the information I can so you can provide me with the most accurate solutions as all the advice I have been given so far has not helped me. Kelly <Do also check your filter is appropriate to your needs. Don't waste your time with "ammonia remover" or carbon media; what you need is biological and mechanical media, a good mix of sponge and/or ceramic noodles. Choose a filter with a turnover of NOT LESS than four times the volume of the tank per hour (in your case, at least 4 x 26 = 104 gallons per hour). The more filtration, the better. If budget is an issue, it's hard to beat an undergravel filter. Otherwise any decent internal or external canister filter should do the trick nicely. Read the instructions carefully, but don't get distracted by sales pitches that involve replacing sachets of carbon and what not every month! Carbon is pretty useless in a tank like yours, and mostly a way for manufacturers to make money. Read up on what each filter medium type does, and choose accordingly. Take it from me: biological media is what makes or breaks your aquarium! Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue First off I want to thank you for taking the time to help me. <Happy to help.> This whole process has been so frustrating as the people at the pet stores seem to know little to nothing about fish. I spoke with the store where I purchased the fish and they will not take them back (even for free). I explained it was their bad advice but they still would not take them. I also called several other stores but none of them have the types of barbs I have and won't take them. They have a few have tiger barbs but not the other varieties so they won't take them. So far it does not look like I am going to be able to get rid of the fish and just keep the one ruby like you suggested. Any thoughts on this? <I wish I had some magic solution to this. But there isn't one. Without "getting on your case" too much, the lesson here is that it always pays to research the fish first, and then buy them, rather than buy them first, and then find out about them afterwards. Since you're stuck with these fish for the time being at least, you can always hope for the best. But at the end of the day, the biology of each fish species will be working against you, so there's no guarantees I can give you that all will work out. Things might, but I just can't say for sure.> In terms of filtration...I have a Whisper power filter for up to 30 gallons. According to the packaging it has mechanical, chemical, and biological filtration components and a turnover rate of 150 gallons per hour. I also have a Perfect-A-Flo undergravel filter that is powered by an air pump and air stones. <All sounds fine. The undergravel filter will be doing most of the work in terms of biological filtration.> I also left work and purchased a water test kit and went home and tested the water. I tested both the current aquarium water and the tap water without any chemicals added to it. (I stated before I got the water out of the sewage system...haha, I meant the city tap. That would be gross). The results are as follows: Aquarium Water: Tap Water: Nitrate - 0 Nitrate - 0 Nitrite - 0.5 Nitrite - 0 Total Hardness (GH) - 300 ppm GH - 300 ppm Chlorine - 0 Chlorine - 0 Total Alkalinity (KH) - 40 ppm KH - 180 ppm pH- 6.2 pH - 8.4 <Ah, very interesting. Firstly, nitrite is going up, which implies one of three things: [a] the filter isn't mature (or isn't being maintained properly); [b] the fish are being overfed; or [c] there are too many (or too big) fish for the tank/filter provided. Secondly, the carbonate hardness (that's the KH measurement) goes down. Carbonate hardness is the stuff that prevents acidification. In brief, all tanks tend to become acidic over time for a variety of reasons. Decaying organic matter produces acids, bogwood leaches acids, nitrate dissociates into nitric acid, and so on. In a hard water tank there is usually enough carbonate hardness that this process is so inhibited that any acidification (i.e., pH drop) is minimal between water changes. Hence, while aquarists often bemoan hard water because it's so different to the soft water of the Amazon, in reality it is something of a blessing! Now, since your carbonate hardness is being dramatically "used up" (i.e., goes from 180 ppm [10 degrees KH] to 40 ppm [2.2 degrees KH]) between water changes, this means one of two things: [a] you aren't doing enough water changes to keep topping up the carbonate hardness; or [b] there's an AWFUL lot of acidification going on in your aquarium. By default, do 25-50% water changes weekly, and make sure that there isn't any organic matter in the tank likely to lower pH (bogwood, dead plants, uneaten food, etc.). If the aquarium is honestly going from pH 8.4 to 6.2 between water changes, that is more than enough by itself to kill your fish. In all honesty I can't imagine what's happening to cause such dramatic pH changes, as water with carbonate hardness of 180 ppm is essentially liquid chalk! You certainly shouldn't need to be using buffering chemicals or potions. But one possible result is loss of biological filtration: the filter media bacteria are sensitive to pH, and prefer a pH above 7.0; as the pH drops below 7.0, they work less and less happily, stopping entirely around pH 6.0.> I also used a separate test kit to get the current ammonia levels of the aquarium and the result was 0.25. <These low levels of ammonia and nitrite are pretty typical of tanks through their cycling phase; by gut feeling is that this tank is either not fully cycled or else dramatically overstocked. Some of your fish have the potential to get pretty big: how big are they now? I've been assuming they're all babies under 5 cm/2 inches.> I don't know what this all means except that my tank water is not of good quality for the fish which I already knew. <Your tap water is actually pretty good. It's on the hard side, but as mentioned, that's not a bad thing. Barbs don't care about hardness really, and this water would be perfect for livebearers as well as most catfish and cichlids.> Seeing as I can not return the fish I am not sure what you will suggest next, but I am willing to try anything. Is there any possible way to stabilize the water with the current fish in the tank? <Here's what I'd do. Put the fish in a bucket, filled with water from the tank. Drape a towel over it to stop them jumping. Switch off the heater and filters. Remove the electric filter, and at the least place its biological media (sponge/ceramic noodles) in a shallow basin of aquarium water so it stays wet but well oxygenated. (Dry media is dead media!) Empty the tank of water down to an inch above the gravel, all the while giving the gravel a really good clean to wash away any detritus. Once you're happy the tank is spotlessly clean, add fresh water from the tap, with dechlorinator of course. Put the heaters and filters back, and switch them on. Check everything looks good, in particular the temperature is where it should be, around 24-25 C/75-77 F for barbs. Now, slowly replace the water in the bucket with water from the tank. The idea is to slowly introduce the barbs to the "new" water conditions one small change at a time. I'd recommend changing one litre (about the size of an ice cream carton) every ten minutes. So after an hour or two, your barbs should be completely converted to the new conditions. Using a net, move the barbs to the new tank. Don't put any old water from the bucket into the tank! Over the next week, do a pH change each day. Don't feed your fish more than one small pinch of food per day! (A small pinch is just that, and all the food should be gone within 30 seconds. Each barb only needs a single flake to do just fine.) You might decide not to feed them at all this week. In any case, check the pH daily, and with luck, the pH will not drop dramatically. After seven days, change 25-50%; the smaller amount is fine if you find pH is steady and nitrite/ammonia are at zero.> By the way when I do water changes I add NovAqua plus and AmQuel plus, both Kordon products. One other note, I get an accumulation of crusty white stuff around the edges of the outside of the tank hood. I am assuming this is cause by something from the tank, some sort of deposit buildup, perhaps you know what it is? <The white stuff is likely just lime. Harmless. Can be brushed off. A little lemon juice or vinegar can be used to safely work away at stubborn patches, but try not to get too much of these into the water! Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue Yes, all the fish are smaller, I think the Ticto Barbs are the biggest and may be slightly over the 2 inches but not by much. I am going to try your suggestion of draining out the water. One thing you mentioned in your suggestion was "Over the next week, do a pH change each day". Did you mean do a pH check every day? <Oops. Yes, "check" or "test" was precisely what I meant.> Hopefully this will work and I just have too much acidification going on, perhaps from overfeeding in the past and it not getting properly cleaned thus causing this problem. I have been very careful about feedings lately so I now at least with the past two weeks I have not been overfeeding. I also know it can not be due to lack of water changes because I have been doing them every other to every two days for the past several weeks and once a week before that. I am going to make sure I take out all the plants and decorations when cleaning this time. If the pH happens to crash I will email you right away. I guess all I need confirmed is that you meant a pH check not change. Thanks again! <Happy to help, Neale.>

Re: pH/Ammonia Issue (RMF, never come across this, any ideas?) 01/10/09 Alright so here is the result of the tests I did on the tap water. First off, I did get a new test kit that is easier to read. <<Ah, good. RMF>> This test showed different results from the original tap water results I had given you. Namely the first time I told you the kH was 180 ppm but this test shows that it starts off at 120 ppm. Anyway here are all the stats of the tap water immediately out of the tap without any chemicals added: Ammonia=0 Nitrate=0 Nitrite=0 gH=150 ppm Chlorine=0 kH=120 pH=7.6 (keep in mind the test kit only goes to 7.6, the other strip test was between the 7.6 and 7.8 but closer to 7.6) After about 18 hours of the tap water being in the bucket with an air stone the results were the following: Ammonia=0 Nitrate=0 Nitrite=0 gH=150 ppm Chlorine=0 kH=80 ppm pH=7.6 So basically the kH dropped off from 120 to 80 in less than 24 hours. <<Mmm, these test results are "fine", much more easily accounted for... the "loss" of KH here may well be due to precipitation of material/s added by your water supplier (flocculant and temporary hardness) to improve (low) water supply on their end, protect pipes et al. in their plants and distally... Not uncommon more and more... RMF>> Now, I keep my fish tank in the basement of our house, which is finished off and very nice. But I dump the old aquarium water out in the wash basin where the wash machine flows into. There are two sides to the basin and I make sure when filling the bucket with tap water that is to go into the aquarium I use the side the wash machine does not dump into. My husband made a point of saying that the pipes down there are very old and he suggested using water from the bathroom where the pipes are more new. I was leaving the water run in the sink a bit when using the old faucet, but he said it might make a difference. <<It may...>> So I tested the water straight from the tap from a newer faucet and all the numbers were the same except the kH came out to be 80 ppm, right out of the tap. I guess I am thinking that this water might be more stable, if this even makes sense. I put this water in a bucket and do the same 12-24 hour test to see if it changes. Right now the current kH of the aquarium has dropped is closer to 80 ppm. But there is still a lot of ammonia in the water. <<Am thinking this is spurious... do you have a DPD test kit, or someone about who does... maybe someone with a pool or spa nearby... Something is up here.>> But I am surprised to see the pH staying steady. Is it possible that the ammonia level spiked because the kH dropped from 120 to 80 in the course of 24 hours? <<No>> By the way I use Amquel plus to dechlorinate my water and it says that it takes care of both the chlorine and Chloramine. <<This fine Kordon product can/does yield a false positive for ammonia with many types of test kits... Nessler's rgt. Again, you aren't adding this ahead/before testing for ammonia I take it. RMF>> Let me know what your thoughts are on all this. <Apart from the carbonate hardness issue, your tap water is otherwise very good. Zero ammonia is obviously what you want when doing water changes, and the moderate level of general hardness (GH) suits a goodly range of tropicals including barbs, tetras, catfish and South American cichlids. It's a bit low for livebearers and species from hardwater habitats like Mbuna, but otherwise this water is good. Because the carbonate hardness varies -- for now obvious reason to me -- I think I'd concur with Bob's comment that adding some type of buffer to each batch of water would be beneficial. If you're keeping mixed community tropicals, then any standard buffering potion that fixes the pH at 6.5, 7.0, or 7.5 would be ideal. There's not much to choose between any one pH value in terms of community fish, so going for 7.5 would probably be the easiest option in terms of usage, cost and usefulness. If you fish are skewed towards hardwater species like livebearers (Guppies, Platies, Swordtails, Mollies, etc.) I'd actually not use a buffer but instead use a Malawi (African cichlid) salt mix. This will both steady pH and raise carbonate hardness. You can buy Malawi salt mix from an aquarium shop, or else make your own for pennies per water change. Per 5 gallons/20 litres, stir in: 1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) 1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) 1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements) Once done, test the water chemistry of the bucket of water to confirm everything is as it should be. If all your fish are hardwater species, then use this "hardened" water entirely; if you have a mix of hardwater and regular species, a 50/50 mix of hardened water with tap water should do the trick. Hope this helps, Neale.>

Coral in my Freshwater Tank, H2O chem. f'   12/5/08 Hello, I've read many, many of the articles on your site and others about using dead coral in a freshwater tank. I see that the prevailing advice is don't do it! But, I'm stubborn. I lugged this huge (about 10 - 15 pounds) piece of coral home from Cuba (along with a smattering of other rocks, most of which I think are nonporous) for the purpose of putting in our new 55 gallon tank (which I haven't set up yet). The simple question I have is this: is there a way to seal this thing with clear epoxy or something to keep it from depositing calcium into the water and messing up the pH? Right now, the plan is to move the fish from our smaller tank and add others. We currently have 3 guppies, 1 molly, 1 platy, 3 silvertip tetras and 2 Oto cats. Thanks -- and sorry if the answer is out there and I didn't find it ... Rick <There's absolutely nothing wrong with using coral in a tank where the water is (needs to be) hard and alkaline. So by all means use coral in a tank with Platies, Guppies and Mollies. But inevitably the carbonate hardness and pH will go up if you place it in anything with a low pH or carbonate hardness, and this will stress your Otocinclus and tetras. I'd heartily recommend thinking carefully about what you're trying to do. If you want a hardwater tank with fish and plants that like such conditions, by all means add the coral. Otherwise, leave it out. Covering the things with non-toxic sealant will be tricky given the rugose surface, and even if you did, it would eventually abrade away if you add any fish that like to scrape at things (such as Plecs). On the flip side, a dead coral can look great in a hardwater or brackish water tank. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Coral in my Freshwater Tank  12/9/08 Neale: I set up this tank on Saturday. I went ahead and put the coral in it, along with the other rocks I had picked up. I boiled them all for quite awhile on Friday night to make sure there was nothing living in them (although they had been beached for a while). I planted the aquarium with about 15 plants. It looks great... Can't wait to put the fish in in January. I added tap water conditioner and some aquarium water clarifier. I tested the water and the pH is about 7.2, the hardness was about 11 degrees. Sunday morning, I got up and there is a layer of white granules (too big to be called a powder) on the plants and rocks. It is more predominant at one end of the tank. Is this something to be concerned about or should I just vacuum it out and see if comes back? Thanks! Rick <Hello Rick. The white stuff could be bicarbonate precipitating out of the water, but to be honest I don't think that's likely given the pH. It's more likely surely that the white stuff is just silt of some sort. I'd siphon the stuff away, and see what happens. Providing water chemistry stays sensible, I'd not worry too much. Your comment on hardness being "11 degrees" is cryptic though -- 11 degrees dH (General hardness) is fine, but 11 degrees KH (Carbonate hardness) would be extremely high. While absolutely fine for livebearers -- in fact the harder the better for them -- carbonate hardness levels above about 7 degrees KH tend to be a bit tough on generic community fish. Cheers, Neale.> Re: Coral in my Freshwater Tank Neale: Thanks! It is dH! Rick <Then you should be fine! Cheers, Neale.>

Acidic and hard water - What fish to buy?   11/25/08
Hello,
I have a 30 hexagon and I don't know what to put in it. My tap water PH = 7.8 and its very hard.
<Sounds fine for hardwater fish. Livebearers, many killifish, New Guinean Rainbowfish, various small Rift Valley cichlids such as Shell-dwellers would all be appropriate. More broadly, you'll find most barbs and many tetras will also do well.>
Once its in the tanks, the PH would eventually drop to 7.0 or lower.
<Ah, now this is interesting. It suggests that you have high general hardness but low carbonate hardness, and hence the standard acidification processes in all aquaria get to run amok! I'd recommending adding some crushed coral or crushed oyster shell to your filter. Most canister filters have enough space for a media bag filled with such stuff. If you're using an undergravel filter, just incorporate some coral sand into the gravel. Either way, keep testing pH every few weeks, because after a few months the calcareous media will be so covered with algae and gunk it'll stop buffering the water. In the case of a canister filter, you just take out the old calcareous media, and either replace or thoroughly clean under piping hot water. Because hang-on-the-back filters don't have the option for adding buffering media in this cheap and easy way, this is YET ANOTHER reason I find them a total waste of money!>
I used a liquid KH test kit and it takes only 2 drops to change in color from blue to yellow.
<Proof positive!>
I use to keep mollies in this tank, and crushed coral was mixed in the natural gravel to keep the PH stable at 7.6. The KH was always within acceptable range. This tank is too small to place two separate filters on it (one main filter and one for the crushed coral). I refuse to put the crushed coral in the gravel again. Because of the deep tank, cleaning up after the crushed coral "blooms" was a mess. I also don't want to use the crushed coral in the main filter because I fear that it could compromise the beneficial bacteria in it.
<Your concerns about "compromising" an external or internal canister filter are misguided. If you found crushed coral "messy" (and I can't think why) then do try alternatives, such as crushed mussel/oyster shells, which can be very decorative. Adding calcareous media to the substrate is only really effective when used with an undergravel filter, and if you just mixed the stuff into a plain vanilla gravel substrate, then that wouldn't work particularly well because of the lack of water flow, though it would be better than nothing.>
Are there any freshwater fish that like hard and acidic water and can live in a hexagon?
<No fish will do well in hard/acidic water. The real problem isn't the acidity, but the rapid pH change between water changes, where it's going from 7.8 (quite basic) to below 7.0 (slightly acidic). This sort of fluctuation is very bad. Now, tell me, do you happen to use water from a domestic water softener? A lot of beginners make this mistake: you should only ever take the water from the drinking (non-softened) tap.>
Audra
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Acidic and hard water - What fish to buy?   11/25/08
Thanks Neale for your feedback. I use nonsoftened tap water for my water changes. It usually takes about 2-3 days for the pH to drop. The water is changed about every 2-3 days. Can using a holey Texas rock (limestone) help buffer the tank with my water alkalinity?
<Will have a marginal effect, and as with anything else, once covered with algae and bacteria, will work less and less effectively.>
Do you know if there is a lot of pH fluctuation using this type of method for buffering?
<The only 100% effective approaches use either [a] the addition of Malawi salt (or even marine salt mix, if the fish are salt-tolerant) to raise the carbonate hardness of each bucket of new water; or [b] the placing of crushed coral within the filter (whether undergravel or canister).>
Once I get the tank's pH to at least neutral, do you have recommendations for fish that will do okay in a hexagon?
<If this was me, I'd be looking at Shell Dwellers, such as Neolamprologus brevis or Neolamprologus multifasciatus. These fish are incredibly pretty and lively, and because they're cichlids, they offer up lots of fun behaviours. They don't need much swimming space, but they do need lots and lots of empty shells (apple snail shells are often used, but those snail shells sold with cans of escargot to the trick brilliantly as well). They rarely move more than a few inches from the substrate, so you add a few Endler guppies to the top of the tank for a bit of colour. Tanganyikans need very hard (20 degrees dH, 7+ degrees KH) water with a high pH (around 8 to 8.2) as well as perfect water quality, so I wouldn't recommend these fish for beginners. But if you have some experience, providing and maintaining these conditions shouldn't be difficult. A fun, rewarding hardwater system that will work well in a "tall" tank.>
Audra
<Cheers, Neale.>

Peat moss to induce breeding?  10/6/08
Hi -
I have some Rasboras, some black Neons and some cherry barbs, all of which at one time or another seemed like they were ready to breed (as evidenced by males chasing the females around, and especially the Rasboras turning upside down on a leaf).
<Certainly seems possible; that said, the tricky bit is getting the females in "condition", i.e., ripe with eggs.>
However nothing has really happened or any eggs I may have missed have been eaten. I bought a small 2 gallon tank with some marbles on the bottom to put a small pair of fish to see if maybe they would mate and then could be removed quickly. I have not added any pairs yet to the tank. what would you recommend to induce mating?
<No single formula for all possible species. But in the case of Harlequin Rasboras (Trigonostigma heteromorpha) breeding is quite difficult. You need extremely soft water around 2 degrees dH (here in southern England where the water has a hardness of 20 degrees dH, that's one part tap water to nine parts rain (or RO) water. You also need to ensure the pH is stable, possibly by doing large water changes frequently, but more than likely by using a pH buffer to fix the pH at the required 5.5 or so. You also need to raise the temperature to around 26-28 C, and then make sure the tank is positioned somewhere it gets morning sunlight. The water also needs to be filtered through peat or treated with blackwater extract, and not too deep, around 20 cm. Assuming all these things are provided, they should spawn eventually, laying their eggs underneath broad leaves (such as Cryptocorynes). Your 2 gallon tank is way too small for breeding fish; look for a standard breeder tank at least 30 litres in capacity and 60 cm long. Spawning is often a frenetic process with much chasing, and you'll frequently need to maintain the adult fish in the breeding tank a fair while, and of course provide decent water quality for the developing fry, something impossible in bucket-size tanks.>
I hear adding peat moss to filter, raising temperature, may help. thanks, bob
<Do spend time with Baensch's Aquarium Atlas and the like, researching the species you're interested in. Cheers, Neale.>  

Hard/alkaline Water  9/18/09
Hello,
<Ave,>
I have a 55 gallon tank and have had some hit and miss results with some fish, I have been finding it hard to keep some fish alive for more than six months, right now I have 5 flame tetras, a black molly, striped Raphael catfish, clown Pleco, 3 Otocinclus catfish, and a zebra Botia. They have done fairly well, but the molly is the last of about 6 that I had purchase at one time. the rest just slowly died off of the course of a month or two.
<Mollies, contrary to popular belief, are not "easy" fish. They always do better in slightly brackish water, and in addition are very intolerant of nitrogenous wastes, including Nitrate. Best kept in a tank designed for their specific needs; in such tanks they are actually quite hardy and easily kept.>
I have tried many fish in the tank, i.e.. Corys, Elephantnose, African butterfly fish, marble hatchet, angels, clown loaches, Gourami, and various other normal tropical fish, but none have lasted as long as I would like.
<Not all of these are "normal". Elephantnoses are very difficult to keep: they need a soft substrate of sand (not gravel) and copious quantities of frozen or live foods such as bloodworms. They can't be mixed with other bottom feeders because they'll starve. African Butterflyfish are difficult to feed and rarely mix well with tetras because they often get nipped, allowing infections to set in. But if you're losing something like 50% of the fish you're trying to keep, then the problems may run deeper than this. Review in particular water quality; this is by far the commonest explanation for "mass deaths".>
I have hard/alkaline water, calcium carbonate at 200+, ph of around 8.0, I just have the test strips that test all the major qualities of water, those plus of course the hardness are of the charts for my test strip.
<In itself hard water isn't bad, but it does make life easier if you choose species adapted to such conditions. There are plenty of options:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm
In particular I'd commend to you the livebearers, the Rainbowfish, the gobies, the halfbeaks, and the glassfish. If you're a bit more ambitious, Tanganyikan and Malawian cichlids will also do well, and a small number of these can (just about) be considered community fish, if mixed with appropriate species. Shell-dwelling Lamprologus for example mix great with surface-swimming livebearers.>
Being that I don't want to have to go through the work of lowering the ph and constantly monitoring the water quality, or purchase a reverse osmosis filter and just go with the flow I was wondering what types of fish and plants I could put in there that I can enjoy for more years without having to replace them. I do regular water changes and vacuum the gravel as well as use stress coat with all water changes and addition of fish as well as aquarium salt (1 tblsp/5 gallons).
<Adding salt is a waste of time in a mixed community tank, and may indeed be one factor behind your unfortunate experience. Contrary to popular myth, adding salt isn't essential and doesn't make the tank better in some mysterious way inexplicable to science. Lots of freshwater fish have a low tolerance of salt, and even quite small amounts will stress them in the long term. I'd heartily suggest concentrating on water quality and choosing fish adjusted to your water chemistry. Trust me on this: do things this way, and it's a lot easier.>
Any advice would be much appreciated so I can enjoy seeing the same fish everyday.
Thank You,
Matt
<Cheers, Neale.>

TDS vs. PMDD 7/30/08 Dear Benjamin, <Hans> I'm using pea gravel for my substrate. I did vinegar test for my substrate, and I think it is fine. The rocks are not bubbling. Recently I tested some of the pea gravel to a bucket and left it for 3 days and did not show any changes in ph and kH. <Good> I also have few bog woods in the tank. And yes, you are right!.. I tested the water and it has a TDS value of 593! By the way, I've recently bought an RO unit for my tank and a TDS meter. <A good choice, given your trouble> Thus, currently I have got ph=7; and kH=8, which according to the table shows a desirable co2 level. Since I have got a good read-out from the ph-kh-co2; I think it is time to move on to fertilizing the plants. Judging from the last read-out (TDS=593), I have done 2 water changes. and now, ph=7;kh=8;CO2=??(should be OK according to the tables) but I still have a TDS value of 467. I know that a TDS meter measure total dissolved solid, but I do not know what or which solids does it refer to.. Does it means that I have enough macro and/or micro elements in the water? <Hard to say...in your case, probably a lot of carbonates, metals...> Does it also means that I do not have to add fertilizer such as PMDD? I would assume that by adding PMDD dose would increase TDS. <With RO you will need to add buffers and fertilizers, but I would wait to fertilize until you have the KH under control- keep your variables limited. Once your hardness and pH are both in their proper places, begin to tinker with other factors> Many Thanks.. Hans. <No trouble!> (I'm new to fresh water planted aquaria. Unlike most people I guess.. I'm started off with marine and has had great success with my tank with the help of your crew!!, thus I really mean MANY MANY thanks to you all!) But I still think fresh water planted aquaria is more challenging than marine. It is the growth rate that fascinates me. <Understood...truly beautiful, often under-appreciated or unknown ecosystems. Best wishes for your tank, Benjamin>

Hardness... FW?   6/12/08 Hi ya'll <Jay> I've had my 37 gal. tank setup for about 3 weeks now. I am using Jungle Quick Dip 5 test strips. <Such assays are notoriously inaccurate and imprecise...> Everything shows fine except the hardiness pad. On the box, the color is a dark grey for a good reading, on my test strip, the color is vivid blue. Now my question is, is this high or low? <Got me> I cant find anywhere, where it has the colors for a low reading or high reading. Can you guys help me out, if I need to adjust the hardiness, I need to know which way to go (up or down). Thanks and any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Jay <For... what purpose? That is, what sorts of organisms are you hoping to keep, do what with? Your pH may well give you a good approximation of hardness "range"... but likely you don't need or want to be adjusting this factor. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwhardness.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Need help with ph and hardness 5/15/08 Hi, I am a little confused with what is happening with my tank. Hoping you guys can shed some light. <Will try.> I have a 28 gallon freshwater tank, penguin bio-wheel 150 filter, keeping it at 80 degrees. Its planted with a fair number of plants. I have eco-complete substrate with a layer of CaribSea "peace river" gravel on top. As far as decor I have a fake stump and two decent sized pieces of sandstone. Im trying to get the tank conditions perfect for the 4 Bolivian Rams I have, hoping to see some spawning. 5 months ago when the tank was first set up, before the rams, I was using 100% tap water and conditioning it. My tap conditions according to test strips I have are GH 200 ppm, KH 140 ppm, and pH about 8. So a few weeks after set-up I started using RO water in attempt to lower ph and hardness. <A good investment.> At that time I also started using Seachem acid buffer, not really knowing what I was doing. Used acid buffer for about a week and it dropped KH pretty low, lowered pH a little also. I got worried about that stuff and stopped using it. I slowly moved into doing 100% RO water changes to see what would happen. I did that for 2 months and no change in ph and no change in hardness. I cant seem to understand how despite consistently adding water with 0 minerals to my tank, the GH wouldnt budge. <Agreed, it should.> pH either for that matter. These were 5 gallon water changes. So after all my plants started dying off and realizing that pure RO is bad, I have begun doing 5 gallon water changes of about 80% RO and 20% tap. I also fertilize my plants twice a week now with Flourish and have a DIY CO2 system that runs into a Rio powerhead. Plants are doing amazing now, pH lowered immediately to about 7.5. I have about 1 bubble per second into the powerhead, maybe slightly faster. This method seems to be working great for plants and algae, everything looks good. <Good.> But I still have hard water. I was worried maybe the sandstone rocks in the tank were doing it, but I put one of the rocks in a bucket of RO water for a week and the water still measured 0 GH. <Hmm, sandstone can have solubles in it that can raise the hardness of the water. One piece may not, another may.> So I assume the rocks arent a problem. <In all likelihood they are.> Was considering getting real driftwood, would that help out a lot? <Not much, certainly nowhere near using RO water.> How long does it work for? <It can benefit your system for quite a while, at a slow rate.> Or maybe peat. But do these things lower pH and GH? <Yes.> As of now Im at GH 200 ppm, KH 50 ppm, and pH 7.5. Any ideas? Thanks, Danny. <Danny, I would remove the sandstone for a while to see if there is a difference. Using RO water should be lowering your hardness, it is leaching in somewhere and the sandstone is likely the culprit. Do read the following articles regarding soft water use. Once you get your problem under control you will likely want a ph buffer to keep you ph stable. Good luck, Scott V.> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwsoftness.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm

Re: Ick, planted aquaria  3/26/08 Hello All, I have a well established FW Live Plant & reef aquarium both of which I started with RO/DI water years ago, and adding the appropriate additives daily. Water changes with RO/DI as well. I want to start another, live planted aquarium. If I started with de-chlorinated tap water would this be a problem, or should I utilize RO/DI? Thanks, Matt <Depends on the plants of course but few aquatic plants want very soft water. In general, 5-15 degrees dH general hardness suits most aquatic plants. You also want to have at least some carbonate hardness (3+ degrees KH) simply to moderate against pH swings through biological activities, including photosynthesis. On top of this you will need to check the pH and carbonate hardness so that you can measure the CO2 fertilisation correctly. In other words, you're going to need to mix tap water and RO water to get the right sort of water your fish and plants want. Cheers, Neale.>

API GH Test Results... FW, cichlids of some sort sys.   2/22/08 I plan on using well water for a new 30 gallon cichlid tank due to the alkalinity of the water being 12 with a PH of 7.8. <Uhh, what sort of cichlids? Some groups like hard, alkaline water... and what is the chemistry of the well water?> The only problem is that when I tested the water for GH it took 48 drops of reagent to turn the test tube from orange to green. Can someone tell me what this means as it does not compute in the conversion chart supplied with the test kit. <Need to make an extrapolation... that is, continue the curve for the chart...> Also, since it seems that my well water is suitable for cichlids, would there be a need to use the Eco Complete Cichlid Substrate or would that raise the levels of KH, GH and PH combined with the well water. Thank you. <... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlvstkind2.htm scroll down to the area on Cichlids... see the various groups? Read re their Systems... And here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwmaintindex.htm the articles, FAQs files on water quality... Understanding what your options are, reality is... now, will save you many problems later, and reciprocally, increase your enjoyment, appreciation. Cheers, Bob Fenner>