Please help. Cnid. allelopathy in a new, large sys.       5/26/16
Hello Mr. Fenner,
<Hey Dai>
I hope you can point me in the right direction. I have a 265 gallon reef tank that I set up 4 months ago. I have sump/refugium, 4" carbon reactor, 6" media reactor with media pellets, 8" skimmer. Lights are 4 Hydra 26 HDs.
Nitrate /phosphate is zero
<Mmm; stop here: You know that all bio-mineralizing life requires "some" NO3 and HPO4? W/o these basic chemical nutrients all your "corals" will be very stressed/starved>
and the water is within reef parameters. The tank has 3 sections. Left is Zoas, center is 100 plus heads of hammers/frogspawn, and the right is 18" green leather and 4" green toadstool.
<Yeeikes....>
Everything was fine with Zoas multiplying, hammers sprouts tiny babies but within the past 5 days, some of the hammer heads just died leaving stalk white skeletons.
<The "losers"... to either the Alcyoniids or Zoanthids>
I bought a 60 gallon so this weekend I can put the finger/toadstool in it.
I hook up the FX6 filter (400 GPH) with carbon to address chemical warfare since Monday. I think the reasons on the demise of the hammers are :
1. Chemical release from leather/toadstool.
<Possibly>
2. Media reactor strips all nitrate/phosphate which hammers do need to grow.
<Definitely a/some factor>
So my plan is:
1. Move the toadstool/green finger to the 60 gallon.
<Okay>
2. Discontinue the FX6.
<All-right>
3. Discontinue the carbon and media reactor (all in one pellets).
<Sounds good>
The Zoas are thriving with new heads forming every week. I love to have a garden of hammers and while some people grow these like weeds, I can't keep them alive. Before dying, they thrive then die next day. Is my diagnosis and plan of action correct? Thank you Mr. Fenner. Dai
<I do agree with your plan; is what I would do, try at this point. IF no improvement, I would move the Euphyllias elsewhere. DO PLEASE READ AND HEED my acclimation protocol for introducing any/all NEW Cnidarians... by mixing water to/fro twixt the main-display and isolation/quarantine system. HERE:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/CorlCompArt.htm 
Bob Fenner>
<<Note: next time mention triple-dosing iodide-ate>>
Re: Please help
Thank you Mr. Fenner. So you are saying maybe it is the Zoas that are affecting the hammers as well ?
<Might/could well be; yes>
In that case should I move the hammers to the 60 and leave the toadstool/finger in the main tank?
<Yes; a better plan... Plus I'd triple dose all (both systems) with iodide-ate... every three days, three times>
Or just leave them in the main tank for now? I bought the 60 for the leathers specifically. Is it OK to run the 4" carbon reactor?
<Can't say from here. I would NOT use such on a newish system period>
On another topic. I think the" all in one pellets" give people the false sense of security.
<Oh yeah; the/a "western ethic"... trained to be good consumers... "Buying" something... but sans understanding, often false notion/s>
The dealer touts as " zero nitrate and zero phosphate" so people go crazy thinking they don't have to do water for a year. But while this is true, it is hurting corals because it is stripping of the essential nutrients that corals need.
<Yes... even other media/sources tout that the world's reefs are "nutrient free" when in good shape. NOT the case. They are nutrient concentrated; with the life there scavenging most all available. NEVER zero nutrients in the water>
If you have to rely on these 'miracles" to get nitrate/PO4 to be zero then that person needs to evaluate his technique of husbandry.
<Very well stated>
Thank you and I look forward to your guidance. Dai
<And I to your further sharing. BobF>
Re: Please help     5/27/16
Ok, so this is the plan. Move the hammers to the 60. How much of new water to old water ratio be?
<About half>
If the old water is not good (chemical warfare, no nutrients) then may be start with 100% fresh water?
<Not I>
You talk about triple dose 2 tanks but I am not familiar with the medication. You mean every three days, I dose the tank 3 times a day and for how long? Is this the iodine coral dip?
<See WWM re. B>
Thanks! Dai

Sponge Trouble (with Stony Corals), moved from FB      12/10/14
Morning Bob! I was wondering if I could pick your brain about chemical warfare and corals.
I'm presently contending with a scenario where water parameters are spot on and stable yet Euphyllia that once thrived are
now receding at a rapid rate. Upon removal the bases of 90% of the colonies were found to be encrusted with numerous sponges.
Sponge tissue was scrubbed off and colonies were given an iodine dip. Now how to contend with the remaining sponges that
have set up shop amongst the rock? Possible that the sponges are part of the problem here? Am I losing my mind? Thanks Bob!
Jon Tarutis
House of Fins, a few seconds ago
Oh! Jon; pls send all petfish related mat. to me via [email protected] cut/paste this. Ah yes; but/and do def. know of the
troubles w/ Euphylliids (and other stonies) and sponges (underneath). NEED to removed the colonies and moved elsewhere.
Am cc'ing a friend (Cam Bee out working w/ Walt Smith in FJ and ChrisT who used to, who both have extraordinary olfaction,
can/do smell the sponges... and reject specimens collected w/ them. Hopeful they will share input w/ you here re.
Bob

Multiple coral health issues - allelopathy?      6/6/13 Hello <Hi there> I have multiple corals in some type of distress at the moment and I have not seen an obvious chemical or physical cause.  I have gone the first 10 months with zero issues, now this has popped up.  I have searched Borneman's book,  your site, and the internet and have not figured it out for myself.  Perhaps you can help. <Let's hope so> Tank: 46 gallon, mixed reef, about one year old.  I have about one year's experience as a marine aquarist.  Remora skimmer, carbon and media in a canister filter.  Carbon change every 2 months (most recent one month ago), water change 10% every 2 weeks (Reef Crystals).  Reef Fusion 2 part a couple times a week is the only additive. <Do you measure [Ca] and alkalinity? Mg concentration in balance?>  Water source is a deep private well with no chlorine or nitrates. Fish:  Green Chromis, midas blenny, royal gramma, Firefish, flame angelfish. Inverts: porcelain crab, <Is this animal crawling over your corals?> pom pom crab, cleaner shrimp, sexy shrimp (2), long spined urchin, dwarf hermits (4), various snails, feather dusters (2) Corals:  Zoas/palys, toadstools, xenia, mushrooms, yellow leather, bubble, chalice, monti's, small hammer, candy canes, finger leather. All corals except those mentioned below appear healthy. <Mmmm> Parameters: temp: 76 s.g.: 1.024-1.026 Ca: 420ppm <Need to know [Mg]> kH: 9 Nitrate: 0 <... need> Phosphate: 0 (or very close) <... your photosynthates need appreciable/measurable NO3 and HPO4... can't live w/o> Ammonia: 0 Issue: 1)  Two candy cane colonies look very unhealthy.  The heads began to look clear and saggy, with the tentacles in affected areas absent. Within the last week a neon slime has appeared in parts of the polyp.  The polyps are normally mint green, no neon at all.  At the same time, an adjacent neon green candy cane seems unaffected even though a few heads were touching the sick coral.  I have moved it away. <I see this> 2) A largish finger leather which is nearby to the affected candy cane no longer expands much during the day.  This has been about 2 weeks.  In the past we would see this for a couple days then it would shed some mucous and come back to it's original size.  This seems different.3) A Monti undata, also nearby, has changed in appearance, becoming wrinkly and bumpy instead of smooth.  It used to be covered in visible white polyps, these have all but disappeared. 4) A Monti cap, also nearby, also had it's polyps disappear.  It used to look fuzzy, now it looks very hard.  It has kept its color, as has the undata. 5) A finger leather frag died.  This was fragged off of the main finger leather in the tank. Possible causes: 1)  Lighting. I changed lighting in February, from 96w T5 to 120w controllable led.  I acclimated very slowly, stating at 40% strength, increasing by 5% every few days. <Mmm; not likely a principal source of trouble> 2)  Allelopathy. In February I fragged the finger leather as it was getting too close to the candy canes.  Fragged outside of DT, and kept frags and parent in QT until they were healed about a week. Although all these issues are on the side of the tank where the finger leather lives, I don't know why this would come on suddenly.   The candy canes were added last August, the finger leather last September. No change in their locations since.  After reading through your advice I think you will say that this is the cause. <Could well be> 3) Parasites/disease.  I do not see anything on them.  All heads appear to be affected equally. <I discount this as well> The finger leather may be the culprit, but I hate to pull it out of the tank without knowing for sure.  Perhaps you have seen a candy cane coral with this appearance before?  <Yes; due to allelopathy... chemical and physical warfare w/ other Cnidarians> Are they capable of recovering at this point? <Oh yes; certainly> Any help would be appreciated.  Thank you for your time. Paul <Well; there are a few paths, steps you can take to alleviate the allelopathy... Read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the linked files above... Again, you want to allow (likely by simply stepping up feeding) some NO3 and HPO4. Bob Fenner>

Tissue Necrosis, Discoloration, and White Excretions on SPS/LPS 4/21/10 Hi there and thanks in advance. <Welcome Aaron> I've recently run into some trouble with my year old 47g mixed reef. Over the past few days I've noticed some startling tissue necrosis and zero polyp extension as well as general paling out of colors on a relatively localized section of my display. <I see this> The affected corals include Cyphastrea, a Favites (possibly), several encrusting Montiporas, two Acropora colonies. In addition to the tissue necrosis I've noticed a white, mucus/string-like excretion from the stony corals. I was careful to verify this wasn't a Nudibranch or anything living. Several weeks prior I added some clove polyps without dipping them (I'm ashamed to say) but would think that if this was something I had introduced with them it wouldn't be affecting such a wide range of coral in similar ways. <Likely just an interaction (allelopathy) w/ the Clavulariids period... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/polypcompfaqs.htm Perhaps a "cascade event" twixt them, the Zoanthids, Euphyllia in turn to all> I should note that a frogspawn, numerous Zoanthids and several other LPS corals, as well as a Pocillopora are in the general area and not exhibiting symptoms. <The "winners"> I also ran a battery of tests with the following results: Salinity: 1.025 Ammonia: 0ppm, Nitrite: 0ppm, Nitrate: 5ppm, Mg: 1200ppm, Ca: 440ppm, Alk: 5.9 dKH, pH: 7.8. Further investigation yielded a heater plugged into a surge protector which had been turned off/blown within the last few days (not quite sure when). Thankfully, the ambient temperature is around 75 but it is likely that there were some temperature swings over night. Despite the low pH and alkalinity levels (which are being rectified), I'm not certain that the parameters or temperature is causing the problems as there are numerous corals (various Acroporas, Blastomussa, xenia, clams) that I would have thought to be more fragile in other portions of the tank that as of yet appear to be doing just fine. I'm hoping for some sort of recommendation for treatment. <... chemical filtration, water changes... taking out the most likely offenders, slowly re-acclimating them through water-mixing... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the linked files above> Obviously getting the parameters back in check is a priority (and I'm hoping your opinion is that this is the root cause as it's easily fixed!). I did a 30% water change yesterday and plan to continue this for a number of days in case something was accidentally added to the water (although, again, the localized nature of the problem makes me wonder whether that could be the case. Unfortunately, a freshwater dip for the corals would be quite difficult to manage as many of them are encrusted on a very large rock but if it meant containing the spread of something potentially lethal to my entire aquarium, I could find a way. I have attached pictures of several of the affected corals for your inspection. Please advise! Thank you, Aaron <The most likely scenario/cause here is Cnidarian allelopathy... Read where you are referred to. Bob Fenner>

Stony issues, hlth... allelopathic cascade event likely   10/21/08 I have two main issues: 1) injuries on my tongue coral and pagoda cup; and, 2) tissue recession and/or bleaching on my Pocillopora and my Hydnophora. I have a 150 gal aquarium with a 30 gal refugium, 3x150W HQI (10,000K) + 4x96W (420nm) Actinic, bought new 14 months ago. Calcium is 400, Alkalinity 3.0, Temp 78.5 (controlled by chiller), pH 8.2 (relatively constant, as we have an automatic reef doser, with two-part A and B solution). <I take it the last are administered to the refugium or in/with new water during change-outs> We have had our tank for fourteen months, and have had no problems. Most of the corals in the tank have come from our previous smaller tanks over the last five years. For instance, the tongue coral and the pagoda cup are over four years old, and we moved them into our consolidated 150-gal August 2007. Here's the problem with those two - they were stung by a falling frogspawn. <Ooohhh, can be fatal> It fell and touched the edge of each coral, leaving a visible injury. The tissue has decayed, and I have noticed my cleaner shrimp and blue-tipped hermit crabs picking at the injuries. I moved the tongue into my quarantine tank under PC lighting, and I'm considering moving the pagoda cup. Is this course of action recommended? <Mmm, to avoid the picking mentioned? Actually not if the removal by these crustaceans is/was only the damaged tissue> My idea is, without the shrimp and crabs picking on them, the tissue will grow back, and they can be returned to my display tank. <Mmm... I'd rather had you cover the corals in place... with inverted "strawberry baskets" or such> Please note that this is not brown jelly, and the dead tissue area affected reveals the underlying white skeleton. The area in question on each one is about one square inch, relative to approximately 10 square inches of total healthy coral. The polyps are extending, and the rest of the coral looks great. Please let me know your opinion on this LPS injury problem. <Very common... all else being maintained, usually not fatal> Regarding my second issue, above, over the last week, my Pocillopora, which is over a year old, and has been thriving (growing, polyps extended, branching), has started to bleach from the inside out (ie the middle of the coral has turned white, while the tips have retained their color and polyp expansion). However, the problem seems to be getting worse. I am thinking about fragging this coral, as it is medium size. Should I do this, and what is the likely cause of this tissue necrosis/bleaching/recession? <Nothing obvious here... perhaps (the most likely guess) a result of the reaction of the other two Scleractinians to being stung by the Euphyllia> Because the temperature and other water parameters are stable, and the coral has not been moved since we've had it, could it be due to decreased light intensity from aging bulbs? <Doubtful if the other stony corals are unaffected> Also, we recently switched our A&B solution to C-Balance from Aquaphilic. Could this also be a contributing factor? <Again, doubtful... this variously diluted Peter Wilkens/Two Li'l Fishies product has been implicated (due to sloppy, inconsistent dilution) at times... but not recently> We switched it on the first of the month, and have just developed problems over the last week. I do not want to lose this coral, as we have had it for over a year, and it has been thriving, along with the rest of our tank, which has over forty species of soft and stony corals. All other corals have great polyp expansion, and are growing and healthy, at this time. However, this morning I awoke to find a small area of bleaching on my otherwise healthy (and huge) Hydnophora, which we have had nearly five years, and which has over doubled in size (larger than a bowling ball) since we put it in the new tank about 14 months ago. One of the fingers only has bleached at the tip. Should I cut that finger off before it spreads? <Mmm> Or should I leave it alone and hope it grows back. <I would do this last> Could the Pocillopora and Hydnophora have the same problem? <Yes> What is the recommended course of action for both of these corals? <Patience... and reading: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm  and the linked files above> p.s. We haven't lost any corals, or had any problems whatsoever, since we set up our 150-gal over 14 months ago, from five smaller tanks that we had kept over the previous five years. Please help, so we don't lose the ones that are hurting. P.P.S. It may help you to know that we have six fish (3 tangs, a blenny, a clown, and a royal gramma), and some inverts (snails, blue-tipped hermit crabs, a cleaner shrimp, and a coral banded shrimp), which all live peacefully together. No other corals are in the vicinity of the problem corals, and no other corals appear to have any issues at this time. We are preparing to do a 15% water change, and await your response. Thank you in advance for your help. <Please do keep me/us abreast of further developments/observations. Bob Fenner>

SPS Bleaching 9/15/05 Hi,  I have a situation that I believe has me on the borderline of significant problems and wanted to get your opinions on what I can do to get back into the clear.  I have read several of the other messages with respect to coral bleaching and think that I have some ideas of what I may need to do based on feedback that you offered.  I just want to make sure that I do the right thing, so here goes.  My problem is that I have a SPS bleaching problem, but my tank conditions seem to be within (or at least bordering) what you have shown as acceptable conditions.  <Often, the problematic conditions that lead to bleaching or dying are not things we measure for.> First the specifics; the tank is a 180 gal system with about 140 lbs of live rock with a 65 gallon sump which services both the 180 and a 70 gallon refugium on a reverse lighting schedule with a 5 inch deep sand bed.  The sump also has about 30-40 lbs of live rock in it from a prior rearrangement where I didn't have room for it in the main tank.  The total volume is around 300 gallons give or take.  The system has been in operation for four years now and I decided six months ago to try to keep SPS corals.  Although the system has a moderate fish load (yellow tang, 10 yellow tail damsels, Midas blenny, Lawnmower blenny, 6-line wrasse, and a pair of percula clowns which are fed daily with a variety of items like Cyclop eeze, formula one and two and Spirulina.  I also dose DT's on an every other day basis adding about a tablespoon at a time.  I run a pair of Tunze skimmers and the water seems to stay clear with no noticeable yellowing.  I also have pretty good coralline algae growth and minimal hair algae in the tank- just a little rust colored algae on the back wall and some Valonia in small controllable patches.  Finally, the tank has 3 clams which have been doing great for years- a 14 inch Maxima and two Croceas that are about 5 inches at the long points.  To accommodate my attempt at keeping SPS corals, the tank has a pair of Tunze 6100 stream pumps and I have recently added 3 400w 20K MH bulbs to the 4 110w VHO's that were over the tank.  The lights are turned on and then off stepwise during the day with the halides on for about 6 hours during the middle of the day and a 12 hour total lighting schedule.  I have a calcium reactor as well as a Kalkreactor that run continuously. The Kalkreactor consumes about a tablespoon of powder every 2-3 days.  I also add Lugol's solution at the rate of about 1 ml. once a week and add a teaspoon of buffer 3 times a week.  All additions are to the sump. Water evaporation replacement is done by overflow from the Kalkreactor and untreated water. <All sounds good, but that is a LOT of light!  Let's see what else is going on...> Test results on the tank are as follows: pH typically is 8.1-8.4 dependent on time of day, nitrates are zero, alkalinity is 10-11, and Ca++ is around 420 (hard to tell with a LaMotte test kit where the purple/blue transition is exactly). I live in Virginia so the tank temp stays around 79-80 in the summer and I drop it to 78 in the winter- it is held constant with a chiller. <All sounds very good.> I have added about 10 frags and 4 colonies total- mostly Acropora SPS with a Turbinaria LPS and a Pavona of which half are doing great and growing while half of the Acroporas are bleaching.  All of the additions were treated with tincture of iodine and then a tank water wash prior to being placed in the main tank.  One of the bleaching specimens is a 3 inch diameter blue SPS colony that was added just two weeks ago. Another is a tan colored Staghorn frag that has been in the tank for 5-6 months had grown to at least triple its original 1 inch size prior to beginning bleaching this last week.  The tan Staghorn stayed the same color its entire stay and about half is bleached as of today. Both of these corals are at about the midway point in the tank which would have them about 14-15 inches from the MH bulbs and 5-6 inches below the water surface.  I have one SPS frag that turned from fluorescent yellow to white about 4 months ago, but it has not shown algae growth so I assume it is still alive. Finally, I had two other fluorescent SPS frags which did seem to lose some tissue but parts were clinging to life so I did not remove them.  I'm not certain what RTN looks like, but I don't see any tissue falling off these three currently bleaching or already bleached corals or any slime being expelled.  I am concerned that I might have something spreading and that my other corals that seem to be doing fine might catch something?   I also am at a loss as to exactly what steps I should take to get whatever is going on back under control- help!  Thanks for any information you can give to me that will help me figure this out or anything you can do point out problem areas with my reefkeeping methods.  Eric Black <The addition of new colonies often leads to RTN and/or bleaching in established colonies. Colonies under stress can produce chemicals that produce extreme reactions in other corals.  If the corals are really bleaching (living tissue but white, usually from the tips down), I still suspect light.  If the corals are suffering from RTN (tissue actually dying, often leaving lacy black tissue remnants, usually from the bottom up), it is likely due to the addition of new, stressed colonies.  Bleaching is easier to deal with... simply reduce the amount of light and slowly re-acclimate the corals to it.  RTN is trickier.  It is probably best to remove the offending colonies to a quarantine tank until they are over the stress of shipping.  Water changes and carbon will help remove chemical messengers from the tank water.  Good luck! AdamC.>

Coral Aggression: Galaxea 1/7/04 Brant here again, <cheers> I really appreciate having such an informative site.  I wanted to  mention in reference to my last e-mail about white band that I also got  a Galaxea at the same time.  I placed it on the top of a rock in the  center of the aquarium with some distance between corals.   <grumble, grumble... would rather have heard it was placed properly in a QT tank first for 4+ weeks. We might not be having this exchange if so <G>> The Stylophora  is only 3-4 inches away and is somewhat 'downstream' from the Galaxea.    <Yikes! The Stylo is soon to be Galaxy coral food> I've read a lot about sweeper tentacles <eventually 10" long from Galaxea... they are one of the worst> and was wondering if this had anything  to do with my Stylophora problem.   <very easily so> My salt level is low also, at about  1.019. <do get this up to 1.023-1.025 for corals> Besides the Stylophora problem, I was wondering if I could/should place my  Galaxea directly on the floor of the tank at the farthest distance from everything else?   <perhaps... they are one of the most aggressive corals in the trade> Your help is greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Chris Brant <best of luck, Anthony>

Coral and anemone follow-up Hello Everyone: <Cheers, my friend> Would like to give a special thanks to Anthony for his advise regarding the tube anemone.   <my pleasure> I reluctantly removed it and couldn't believe how the rest of the coral has responded.   <they are indeed hostile> Everyone is fully open and enjoying their meals per Anthony's instructions.  Even the candy coral seems especially happy and has remarkably bounced back, <great to hear!> although I couldn't find the brand name frozen food he recommended, I bought Hikari's brand of Zooplankton and Mysis Shrimp (hope this is acceptable).   <no worries if the protein is comparable (over 60%?)> Everyone seems to be eating just fine because they are obviously very happy.  Have been feeding them 5:00 AM when their feeding tentacles are out. I do have a concern regarding a lime green feather duster (with a soft tube).  I'm having trouble with bubble Caulerpa sprouting on it.  Apparently some time back it must have seeded itself everywhere.   <bummer> I have tried pulling it off the tube but it seems to stress the tube itself.  Also, there is a thick dark velvety red algae growing on the last inch of the tube that seems to be getting thicker.  I've tried to scratch it off with my finger, but it appears to be very dense.   <do try a peaceful grazing urchin like a Tuxedo sp (Mespilia)> The rest of the tube is fine since I have it buried in the sand.  So far it doesn't seem to have bothered the feather duster.  Should there be concern?   <little> Am also concerned about roots from the Caulerpa growing inside the tube and bothering the little guy. <agreed... remove when possible> Everyone at WWM is just great, thanks for all the professional assistance. <our great pleasure> May the force be with you. <it is... I had Mexican food for dinner. Thanks for noticing. Anthony>